Questions to the Brits

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I'm writing a story and I need someone who knows to provide the answer. It's for my new light novel The Life and Death of the Last Water Nymph.

1) What are common names for boys in Britain during the industrial revolution?
2) What are common names for girls in Britain during the industrial revolution?
3) Which town fits the description of 'terrible coal mining town'?

Thanks in advance.

Comments

Not sure about names but ...

... some of the most powerful novels about coal mining areas were written by DH Lawrence who was born and brought up in Eastwood on the Notts/Derby border. His father was a miner and most men worked at the pit or relied for their business on people who did. Try 'Women in Love' and 'Sons and Lovers' which were based in Eastwood (Estwick in the novels). There's barely a sign of the once huge mining industry of my youth, just a few winding wheels as monuments to where the pits were. I was in Durham (a beautiful, compact city) last week which was surrounded by mining until just a few years ago.

I suppose names would be the more common Biblical ones. In my area the most well known name from that period was Richard Arkwright who built the mills in the Derwent valley north of Derby. Jebediah Strutt is another and it was one of his employees, Samuel Slater, who fled to the US with information which allowed the cotton spinning industry to start in Pawtucket, RI.

Robi

Mining towns

It would also depend where your story is set, the mining areas of the South Wales valleys were often described as having a mine at the end of every street.

It was common practice for the mine and factory owners to pay the wages with company money that could only be spent in the company stores (at inflated prices)

If you want a Welsh slant to your story, then look at the novels of Alexander Cordell.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Cordell

Ah, it wasn't 'money'. It

Ah, it wasn't 'money'. It was 'scrip'. If they called it money, they'd have fallen afoul of the counterfeiting laws (at least in the US).

(don't ask me why the feds couldn't figure out that 'script' meant 'fake money', but oh well)


I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.

Coal mining

Angharad's picture

happened all over the place with coal fields in Wales, Yorkshire, Nottinghamshire, Somerset, Scotland and Northumbria. It was more mining villages than towns, the towns were more associated with mills and factories or smelting iron.

Biblical names were common for both boys and girls as were traditional names like Jack, George, William and Elizabeth, Anne, and Margaret. There should be plenty online about the industrial revolution.

Angharad

And Kent

Kent also had some coal mines, but rarely gets a mention.

But they weren't that active, thank goodness, and the beauty of the landscape was preserved.

Yes, I am a Kentish Maid - as opposed to a Maid of Kent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_Coalfield

Enjoy your day

Julia

Names during reign of George III

Rhona McCloud's picture

Children of George III who reigned 1760 - 1820 which is the meat of the industrial revolution
Alfred, Amelia, Octavius, Sophia, Mary, Adolphus, Augusta, Augustus,, Elizabeth, Frederick, Edward, Charlotte, Adelaide, William

Girls
1-10: Mary, Anne, Elizabeth, Sarah, Jane, Hannah, Susan, Martha, Margaret, Charlotte
11-20: Harriet, Betty, Maria, Catherine, Frances, Mary Ann, Nancy, Rebecca, Alice, Ellen
21-30: Sophia, Lucy, Isabel, Eleanor, Esther, Fanny, Eliza, Grace, Sally, Rachel
31-40: Lydia, Caroline, Dorothy, Peggy, Ruth, Kitty, Jenny, Phoebe, Agnes, Emma
41-50: Amy, Jemima, Dinah, Barbara, Joan, Joanna, Deborah, Judith, Bridget, Marjorie

Boys
1-10: William, John, Thomas, James, George, Joseph, Richard, Henry, Robert, Charles
11-20: Samuel, Edward, Benjamin, Isaac, Peter, Daniel, David, Francis, Stephen, Jonathan
21-30: Christopher, Matthew, Edmund, Philip, Abraham, Mark, Michael, Ralph, Jacob, Andrew
31-40: Moses, Nicholas, Anthony, Luke, Simon, Josiah, Timothy, Martin, Nathaniel, Roger
41-50: Walter, Aaron, Jeremy, Joshua, Alexander, Adam, Hugh, Laurence, Owen, Harry

Rhona McCloud

Mining towns

Rhona gives a precise list of English popular names of the period.

There were many mining towns in the UK industrial revolution, but I would really recommend making up your own. The problem with using the name of a real town is that it interferes with the story.

Use a real town name like Wakefield, Sheffield or Redruth, and you'll immediately be under scrutiny from experts of the time. Were they mining coal, steel, tin or arsenic? Was the town growing in that period, or going into slump? Most mining towns went through phases, perhaps changing the mineral they mined in line with economic changes.

Invent the name of a town, using the name of a few towns in mining areas. My own advice is to keep well away from Welsh mining towns as the names are undecipherable and unpronounceable. Yorkshire is a good area as almost every town in, say, West Yorkshire was a mining town of one sort or another. Now invent a name that sounds a bit like one of the towns there. You'll find a list here. The ones ending in "field" are particular significant as they indicate a coal field. And they were all terrible! Many of them still are! (Oops, I didn't say that!)

Personally, I think it's always a mistake to mix up real life with a fictional story.

In the USA, and I believe in the UK as well...

the office of the census periodically issues lists of the most common baby names in order of popularity. In the USA, they go back rather far into the past, but I imagine that a diligent search in public libraries might yield worthwhile results if online sources fail.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-2032264/Most-popular-baby-names-past-100-years.html

Mind you, you’d be surprised how much information is out there on the web, available with judicious use of search terms. As I recall, there is or was a book especially designed for authors with this exact information, but the name escapes me for the moment. It was published by Writer’s Digest, though, so it shouldn't be all that difficult to find.

http://www.writersdigest.com

-

Cheers,

Liobhan

I have one word for you...

Hope Eternal Reigns's picture

Charles Dickens, ok so I really meant two words.

with love,

Hope

Once in a while I bare my soul, more often my soles bear me.

Darles Chickens? Didn't he

Darles Chickens? Didn't he write Stickwicks Stapers?


I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.

Darles Chickens

Didn't she lay an egg once?

Sam Jay

(If you can remain calm whilst everyone around you is losing their head either you don't understand the problem or you are the one with the chainsaw.)

Thanks

shiinaai's picture

Thanks a lot guys. This helps a lot. The story won't be based in any part of the UK, but the main character would be from a mining town/village in the UK. So it will only be a mention, instead of the full details.

A couple more questions:
1) Did they already have mining codes/laws in place at that time?
2) Did the rest of the UK suffer from expensive meat like in the movie the The Barber of Fleet Street?
3) Is Sidney a name already used during that time?

Thanks a lot

My uncle ...

... who was killed in WW1 was known as Sydney (with a 'y' as in the Australian city). He was born in about 1895 after the industrial revolution, I know, but I'm sure the name was used long before. The Victorians weren't big on inventing names.

I'd be surprised if there were many health and safety laws in force during the industrial revolution. There were children working long hours who were employed because they were able to work under machinery whilst it was still running. You only have to visit an old factory/museum to see obviously dangerous machinery with unguarded belts and other moving parts to appreciate that profit was much more important to the owners than people. There may have been regulations to stop naked flames being used in coal mines to prevent explosions. The Davy lamp was invented to allow a paraffin lamp to be used safely and to indicate the presence of gas.

Meat was always expensive until well after the war. The proper way to eat the traditional roast beef and Yorkshire pudding meal is to have a plate of cheap pudding to fill the stomach before the expensive second course of beef and potatoes. I haven't eaten meat for over 30 years so I'm not sure how expensive it is now.

Robi

The no flames in mines had

The no flames in mines had nothing to do with regulations. The mining companies were _all_ for not having mines collapse or explode. The various lanterns with the copper mesh (and similar) that kept gases from exploding were adopted very quickly simply because they removed the risk of losing money.

My mother grew up in West Virginia (Still very heavy mining state). From what I heard/was told/read, they never really skimped on props and braces, or on the equipment required to get the stuff to the surface. They just skimped on individual safety. (breathing masks, etc).


I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.

Mining

Here is an overview from my own knowledge. I suggest you also either listen to the music of Jez Lowe and Ed Pickford/Pigford, the Albion Band's 'Gresford Disaster',or simply read their lyrics. They are both beautiful and brutal. For example, singing of lost youth and slow death through black lung, Ed wrote these first and last verses (hew: cut coal with a pick).

When Ah wes young and in me prime
Ee, aye, Ah could hew!
Whey, Ah wes hewing aal the time
Now me hewing days are through, through, me hewing days are through.

And it's noo ne mair that pit Ah'll see
Ee, aye, Ah could hew!
But Ah carry it roond inside of me.
Now me hewing days are through...

The conditions were atrocious, and the mine-owners, in particular the Vane-Tempest family (Lord Londonderry) were hated with a passion The truck system was abolished by law, so workers had a right to require payment in cash. However...

Miners were 'bound' each year by a hiring fair. They were attracted to a particular mine by a bounty. They either had to buy their own tools, or hire them from the mine owners. They were accommodated in houses owned by the mine-owners and bought their provisions from shops they also owned. They were paid a weekly wage subject to the following deductions (some of many):
Rent.
Hire of lamp.
Sharpening of tools.
Not filling enough coal into their tubs.
Mixing too much stone with the coal.
Cutting coal in too small pieces.
Cutting coal in too large pieces.
Not cutting enough coal in the week (the coal was weighed on a steel yard scale that was...calibrated by the mine owners. It was one of two; the other one came out when the 'weights and measures' man made his visit by appointment: work that one out).

At the end of the week, even without factoring in food and rent, a miner could have worked sixty or seventy hours or more and ended up owing the bastard coal owner money. He could then, of course, get an advance or a loan. Guess who from?

Each time there was a strike, they were evicted and the shops banned from supplying them. "Candymen" and blacklegs (derivation obvious) were brought in, hence the song lyrics

Across the way they stretch a line
To catch the neck and break the spine
Of the dirty blackleg miner.

It is difficult to capture the sheer depth of hatred that still exists in mining communities for those involved.

The conditions were indeed awful, and the word 'damp', from the German 'dampf', was used to mean cjoking gases (choke damp) and explosive gases (fire damp). 'Putters' were employed, from a very, very young age, to push loaded coal tubs along the wagon way from the hewers, who would sit cross legged on a very low home-made wooden seat called a 'cracket' and hew coal by hand, sometimes with their entire upper body laid over to the side. Putters would push the tubs with their heads, and the whole situation can be summed up by one advertisement I saw: "Wanted: Putters for eighteen inch seam"

The eighteen inches refers to the height of the passage they would work in. That's right: pushing a loaded coal tub with their head in a passage eighteen inches from floor to ceiling.

Geordie miners used their own language, called Pitmatic, and one term, 'canny kyevil', which means 'nice cable', is still used to mean comfortable work. It derives from the cable as a measure of length assigned to a particular miner to hew. One free from choke damp, because if you were assigned a seam full of damp you STILL had to work it, or starve.

I could write a hell of a lot more. Meat? In their dreams.

Music links

Ed Pickford
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=ah+cud+hew+song&docid=60...

The caller was a man paid to wake miners up for work by rapping on their windows. Jez Lowe (sweet man)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3d43oaqmKf8
and another take
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoqYSkGQ_K8

Albion band Gresford Disaster. Barking mad violin break by Ric Sanders in the middle of a deliberately sarcastic impression of a hymn.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCKBhmK95q4

Oyster Band, singing about the Welsh pits. "Who killed the miners? BASTARDS!"--a little different from the Byrds' version.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFIbxRe1aHo

Oysters again, about the village in East Kent where I lived, written by a local girl, followed by the Bells.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpXri_hr1dU

Coal not Dole again
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzcN6C54PVI

Show of Hands about Cornwall
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R71nW0yEq_c

Sidney

Angharad's picture

Sir Philip Sidney 1554-86, so the name has long been in use as a surname and as many first names come from surnames I think it's safe to assume it was in use by the time your story is set.

Angharad

Reform didn't really get

Reform didn't really get going until the 1840s. The Factory Act was passed in 1839, prohibiting the employment of children under 6 and reducing the hours children between 6 and 9 could work from sixteen to ten. Needless to say, the new law was stoutly resisted.

Meat was expensive until the end of the 19th century, when refrigeration and canning enabled it to be shipped to the UK from all over the world. The exception was pork - the villages that grew up around the pits were surrounded by open country, where people could keep pigs. Remember that the majority of miners had migrated from rural areas, so they knew how to raise them.

Sidney was certainly used, but mainly by the middle and upper classes. They held the monopoly when it came to using family names as given names. First names were called 'Christian' names for a reason.

Ban nothing. Question everything.

Answers

1) Coal Mines Regulation Act 1860 as one example. Mines safety legislation, workers' rights, and things like universal suffrage and free education were bitterly won against the entrenched opposition of exactly the same families who still own the UK today. How I envy the French :)
2) "The Tilted Cottage originally stood in 12 Cooper’s Bank, Gornal Wood and we know that the occupants, the Bradley family, kept pigs. Domestic pig keeping was once common in the Black Country, when people were much more self-sufficient. They were quite easy to rear and once fattened up, they were killed, usually with the help of a local pig killer. The meat was prepared which could sustain the family for a long period of time. It is said that with a pig, everything but the squeal could be used." - Black Country Museum, Dudley, www.bclm.co.uk.
The recreated pit village at Beamish has a row of miner's cottages with typical gardens: http://www.beamish.org.uk/pit-village/. This is a bit out of your period, as it is set in 1913 (the last time there was full employment in the North East), but it gives a reasonable idea of a prosperous working-class community. The gardens are crammed full of vegetables, fruit bushes, rabbit hutches, a goat pen, and a pig-sty. Wherever possible, working people in Britain would grow and raise as much of their food as possible. In the bigger industrial cities people rarely had the space for a garden (http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/birmingham-back-to-backs/) and sometimes no proper kitchen so they'd be dependent on the chippy, the pie shop, or in the Potteries the Staffordshire Oatcake.
3) Sidney was quite a common name in the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries. It's not been fashionable since around the 1950s, possibly because of the influence of the Beano https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bash_Street_Kids#Sidney.

Distant Sunshine

What about the Black Country

It all depends on what you call terrible coal mining town. The Black Country, so called because the sky was nearly always dark due to the smoke and pollution, is an area west of Birmingham, where most of the factory and mine owners lived (Birmingham not the Black Country), and not only had coal mines, but limestone workings, steel production and associated industries. The anchor for the Titanic was made in Netherton and the anchor chain in Cradley Heath. The owners also used tokens in lieu of money and these were only able to be exchanged for food and the like in the owners shop, which was usually a pub which meant that the worker usually got his fair share of alcohol, and was charged exorbitant prices for said luxuries like food and clothes. Most families, or groups of families, had a pig not as a pet, but as a food source. Why a pig, because there is virtually no waste and nearly everything is edible. Chickens were also kept both for the eggs, but also as extra food when they stopped laying.

As for names, the popularity usually depended upon the area, but religious names were always a staple.

Hope this helps

Sam Jay

Coal Mines

Coal companies did they same thing in the USA years ago (in comment to Wr comment). My ex Father-in-Law work in the coal mines back after WWII for about six months and something told him not to go work one day and there was a bad accident in one of the mines he worked in and never went back.

Richard

Wow, there's a lot here

shiinaai's picture

Thanks very much, everyone. This made researched way way easier. I didn't know where to even start.