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That phrase, or variations on it, have been used to justify transitioning. I find myself kinda conflicted about it. On the one hand, at least for me, of course I was "not much of a man" - because, I wasnt one at all. On the other, it almost sounds like "well, you may have failed at being a man, but you can pass at being a woman, since that's easier". What do you guys think?
Take it from one stuck in neutral on the tg highway...
...You never failed as a man since you were never a man in the first place, leastwise where it counted. And you didn't fail as a human. And there's nothing easy about being a woman, as you already knew all along. I know I'm conflicted even though I finally have begun to see myself in my heart as the woman I knew i wanted to be way back when some woman named Jorgensen was in the news.
At this point I'd be surprised if you weren't conflicted; you have so many things pulling you in so many different directions. We're somewhat alike in a lot of ways. You have a child whom you'd love to get to know Dorothy. I'm still a parent and a partner to those whom I love and whose name is unknown to them. I don't consider myself a failure...most of the time, I guess, but I know you and I aren't the first ones to doubt ourselves when it comes to this, and we won't be the last, either, since much of our lives was defined by what others thought we were rather than who we knew we were. But today, as the Klingons might say, is a good day to transition!
Dio vi benedica tutti
Con grande amore e di affetto
Andrea Lena
Love, Andrea Lena
The Trouble with Tribbles.
The best way to avoid an increase in the size of a problem is to quit feeding it.
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
It's a line in a story
not a real excuse for transitioning. No one is good at everything in their lives, and there are many men who sorry examples of the male gender yet are definitely not good candidates for gender reassignment--because they simply aren't women where it counts: in the noggin. You, Dorothy, are a woman where it counts.
SuZie
SuZie
More than “almost"
To me, the intent of the phrase is pretty clearly the latter interpretation. It’s always disturbed me, as it seems pretty misogynistic to my ears.
The idea that women are inferior to men is pretty rampant in cultures worldwide. Men who think this way can feel that no matter how low they are on the totem pole relative to other men, well, they’re still better than women. There are any number of books on feminism that explore this topic. It’s also why the gender binary is so rigidly enforced: it’s basically the adult version of boys not wanting to let any icky girl cooties get close to them.
I think most of us here could go on about gender for a long time, so I’m going to stop now. :-)
Be a man...
My stepfather used this line towards me a lot. When I was younger, I found it insulting. Now when I think about it, and how my stepfather lived his life, I find it rather amusing. It's one of those things that hurt when all you could think about was pleasing someone else.
He used it with just about anything. If I complained about a bolt or nut being too hard to loosen by myself, he'd tell me to be a man. If something was too heavy for me to lift or carry, he'd tell me to be a man. If I got scared of something (snakes, insects, etc.), he'd tell me to be a man. Anything that could possibly warrant that phrase, he let it fly from his mouth.
As I grew into my teen years, facing my own gender identity issues, I still found the saying painful, but only because I thought it meant something. I thought it meant that I wasn't "much of a man", as said in the OP. Each time I saw myself in the mirror, I belittled my image for not looking "man enough". Only when I realized what it truly meant to "be a man", by being in a relationship with a real one, did I discover the phrase had nothing to do with those things my stepfather associated it with.
If my stepfather had taught me to be a real man, by showing me integrity or anything else useful, I would've known those other things were useless in the scope or reality. I learned the hard way, but I'm content. Once I learned how to "be a man" on the inside, it didn't matter anymore if my appearance said differently. I still dress from time to time, and my girlfriend gets a kick out of it, but I choose to be a man; something my stepfather never learned how to do.
~Bailey
~Taylor Ryan
My muse suffers from insomnia, and it keeps me up at night.
As a male
Who has observed and envied women and paid attention to what they do and say...
Anyone who thinks being a woman is easier than being man, doesn't know squat about being women. Growing up boys are bullies physically, girls are bullies mentally as in Mean Girls. Boys play sports and whatnot, while girls need to know about fashion, makeup, not becoming pregnant. They also have to deal with boys in perpetual heat. Not to mention in High School there is subtle pressure on girls that makes them shy away from math and science.
Women get to deal with lower pay and greater expectations to do more. They have to deal with asshole men (whether they are straight or lesbian). They are expected to look good no matter what kind of day they are having. The more a women does at work, the more work is dumped upon them.
Women get to carry the babies in their bodies and the effects being pregnant produces. Their breasts usually grow a cup or two. The stomach increases in size and often has stretch marks. Then when it is time to deliver they do it in pain that most men would faint from. While they get to feed the baby from their bodies, they have to deal with pumping when they go back to work or suffer pressure pains. Not to mention sore nipples from all the feedings. If they work, it doesn't stop for them once they get home as they switch into instant Mom mode (not that it ever turns off). For most of the early life of a child they are the primary support person for their kid(s). They have to deal with post baby weight and societal expectations of how soon they should lose it.
Everyone jokes about how long it takes for a woman to get ready to go out, but all on this site generally know the reasons why. Hair, makeup, clothes...
How about the GOP and all the talk against Dems to "grow a pair" or "getting panties in a twist" and "man up?" Implying that they are being girls/women as if that is a BAD thing!! This crap came from WOMEN politicians, which makes it even worse to me.
Women make the world run even if men are "in charge" its because women are too busy dealing with important things like raising the next generation, earning paychecks, and keeping men in line.
{{Hugs}}
Frank
P.S. I know a lot of what I said are generalizations, but in most cases they are also true.
The phrase is often used to
The phrase is often used to coerce younger males into buying in to the Old Boy attitude, and is, I think, a reflection of their fear of being seen as less than "strong, and a Gentleman". I was a good man in my pretense for so many years, because I was thoughtful and kind, and felt for others (the very best of a man) rather than being an asshole bigoted bully (the worst of a man) and I always took responsibiiity for my actions. Besides, few that use the phrase could tell you what being a man is really all about. It takes a woman to know that, and many women are better men than a mere male could ever be.
CaroL
CaroL
When I First Started Therapy
Surely
the important thing in life is to be yourself, whether that's as a man or woman.
No one has the right to prescribe who you are, you are the best you there is. As to being a man or a woman, it becomes irrelevant if you're being yourself, the rest is just social construct.
So the next time someone tells you to be a man/woman, tell them to try it themselves because a gentleman would never make such an assertion, and a lady wouldn't even contemplate it.
Angharad
Angharad
the pecking order
i agree with most everything already said, but there's another layer to it: the pecking order.
everybody is trying to get ahead in it; lots of "people" by "pecking down" on others. "hey, i might not be at the top of the pecking order, but i'm still ahead of him/her." sometimes it might be true in whatever context the pecking order is established, like seniority at work. but still, people keep pecking down on others that are endangering their "rank" in the pecking order. someone who's no competition can be treated with polite tolerance, someone who is has to be kept down.
other times it's done to boost some-one's self image. "i might be the trained ape around here, but on the masculinity scale i'm still ahead."
so what's been said isn't so much "you're not much of a man", but rather "i'm more of a man than you." it's meant to establish superiority in the pecking order.
in stories it's also often used to justify transitioning. not because it's generally easier to be a woman than a man, but because the character in question is better suited to compete against women than men. that's what is meant to be outlined. "failure at being a man" usually doesn't come into it, except as an outside perception, most notably from fathers.
Being a woman easier ?
Well, from experience, if you can get through all the grief and depression of losing every single person, and thing on earth that you ever cared about, then we can talk about just living as a woman. Now, go back and really read and digest that last sentence.
Sigh, OK now living as a woman is in some ways easier, but others not. I don't do bars, dope, wear bikinis, or run around in revealing clothing. I practice belly dancing in private.
Generally, women are nicer to each other than men are to each other. As a woman you will need to smile all the time, and not furrow your brows. You will need to be mindful to swing your hips and not your shoulders. You need to stand erect and dignified. You'll need to carry a survival kit in your purse in which, among other things, will be your handpurse, your checkbook, certain make up, some tums, some feminine products (some of which you will give to other women) , a few hair pins, some safety pins, a small writing pad, and pen, hearing aid batteries, hair brush, mace, and a hundred other things that I just forgot.
In the presence of men, you will need to be deferential, not exchange men lies, and expect to be seen as less than. If your car is broke down, expect men to not listen to you even if you know exactly what is wrong. Most still open doors for you, and be prepared to thank them. Be careful about looking men in the eyes for long. You will need to learn how to be around men and not be seen as flirting. I've been with other women and come into the presence of men, and if I like one, well one of my girl friends said that my eyes glaze over and I act completely taken by him. One of my girl friends actually forced me to stop on the way out of a store, get my wits about me, to look in the cart and make sure that I got what we came for. I think she thought that I was going to shed my clothes right there and do the slave dance for him. :)
Yes, Virginia depending on your makeup, men can really be a distraction. Most of the time, I am fine, but once in a while there is that one that ... nuff said. LOL
You'll have to dress better than men, stay cleaner, and still do some things that men do with competence. I was once checking my oil and a man actually told me, no, no, no, this is not for woman. I do for you. So, I stood meekly by while he checked it. Of course, a lady will give the man her most dazling smile in thanks.
Lets face the blunt, awful truth. Damn few T girls can carry off a mini and a tank top. Even though I am no longer Muslim, I still dress like a church lady. Clothing will conceal a multitude of figure flaws, and lets face it baby, even though we want to look like Shakira, we all look more like the refrigerator.
Much peace
Gwendolyn
"not much of a man"
Should not worry anybody as those who use the phrase to judge others are all too often lacking in the so called MANLY virtues that they say you are lacking. What I see is a courageous woman who is looking for support. Please, accept ours and don't let others throw you for a loop.
May Your Light Forever Shine
May Your Light Forever Shine
Classical case
Lol, a person that actually says that crap can't be "much of a man" himself. I mean who cares, the main problem of beeing a guy is imho that there are a lot more restrictions by society than for women.
But hey, be a man and ignore them. If someone will ever say that crap to me, I can say I'm way more manly because I dared to do that. I just wish I had been that wise as a kid :(
Well whatever, as far as I can tell most guys don't even want to be that kind of a man...
I guess since you're transgendered you never were a man to begin with, so messuring you with the same messurments would be grossly unfair. A women is not much of a man, so you're not much of a man, but who cares.
Only asholes care, so you don't need to worry.
Keep on and be merry :D
*hugs*
Beyogi
There's a common thread...
In many of these comments. I think the description of wimyn is overly stereotypical. In much of the third world, wimyn do make the world run because they provide most of the labor, such as farming.
In the US (only place I know much about), plenty of wimyn non-conform. I'll bring up the wimyn in the motorcycle club. Some of these gals were really butch. I don't mean they "took the male role", like in '50s type butch-fem characterizations, they were just the opposite of the US stereotype womyn. They didn't dress in men's or male like clothes to imitate men or show that they're men like F2Ms, they just dressed in a way that was most practical and to show that they were not fem. Jeans and leather are practical for motorcycling. They had jobs like mechanics or maintenance. They, in that club, were a small number, but I saw many like them in various bars or in factories I'd been in. I think these gals seemed to be a little cleaner than some guy motorcyclists, but they had grease under their fingernails and didn't make any special effort to stay clean. They all wore pistols in holsters (legal in AZ) to keep "red necks in pickup trucks" from trying to run them off the road, but I bet they didn't take much shit from guys they worked with. They probably got along; you don't bother me and I won't bother you. They also were probably better at their jobs than the guys they worked with and their bosses appreciated them because of this.
Some might have had a kid when they were young and weren't sure of their orientation, pressured by society, etc., but as they were, they certainly didn't act like they wanted to be mothers and didn't talk about having any children. Come to think of it, it seemed like some were loners and were more neuter than actively gay.
I met strippers that were lesbian, partners worked in the same bar. I saw "baby dykes" who were probably in their 20's who had short hair and sometimes dressed and looked just like 16 YO boys. At the same time (in bars where I saw then) they all spoke in really high girlie voices; I guess they really didn't want others to think that they were boys.
Then we can consider very poor wimyn; some may try to keep up appearances, but I think most don't have the time or money to "take a long time to get ready to go out" or have anything "nicer" to change into.
Well, just sayin' there are a wide, wide variety of wimyn, who socialize and behave in many various ways and have jobs just as varying and sometimes the same as men's jobs.
Hugs and Bright Blessings,
Renee
Ready for work, 1992.
Hugs and Bright Blessings,
Renee
Being a woman is easier...
If being a woman was easier... most men would be wearing frocks.
I personally feel I made the step UP in live. Difficulty? Well perhaps I have a knack for it cuz it just comes naturally to me.
I know a LOT (my mother included) of women think TSs are reaching for the shitty end of the gender stick. They see male priveledge as being a higher state. I think they're deluded!
Dayna.
Wow here's a can of worms
It's come out in a number of my stories that men are competitive and women are collaborative, and before anyone comments on that, it's a generalisation. To fail as a man, or to be "not much of a man" as the thread title has it, means not being able or not being willing to compete with the rest of the testosterone junkies. if not able, then hopping the fence isn't going to make things better. If not willing, it could be that your mindset/outlook on life are more feminine in nature.
The defining parameters for being a woman are broader than those of being a man, because women will accept difference more readily than men. As evidence, women in male stereotype professions are still accepted as women, whereas men who take female stereotype roles are branded as sissies, pansies, poofs, faggots, traitors to their gender or worse, and are ostracised as a result. Yes women do have a tough time of it, partly because they have to deal with men who quite often can be bigger dicks than the bulge in their pants would suggest, partly because men have introduced all sorts of limitations for women (because they're competitive and need to be the best even if it means cheating), partly because they have a really confusing set of motivators to juggle in order to find their happy place. Overall though. I'd say they are better off because, generally speaking (yes another generalisation), they are better at looking out for each other than men, and no matter how complicated and tough life can be, it's always better and easier if you have someone nearby to cheer you on or offer a shoulder to cry on and a tub of chocolate ice-cream.
Personally I feel that an easier answer for most (though definitely not all) GID men would be to broaden the parameters of what it means to be a man. I'm too old and ugly to even consider crossing the gender divide, but I'd be a lot happier as a bloke if there were ways in which I could let the girl in me out from time to time without fear of some overinflated penis trying to score extra points with his mates by tearing my life apart.
another common usage
The other context where the phrase often comes up is as a crude reference to genital size. "I was talking to the other girls in the steno pool about Bob asking me out, but then Cyndi warned me that he's 'not much of a man,' so I called him and cancelled."