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Tuck 128 - Tuck Some More
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Tuck 128 - Tuck Some More
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Comments
Oh, come on!
No comments on Tuck? Like I haven't read the whole series six times! I loved this one, though I read it at Ellen's. This is Tuck, smart-ass, geeky, too cute for his own good -- literally. And Valerie, his alter ego, is so much more competent with people but on the inside -- same old Tuck. :lol:
-- Donna Lamb, Flack
-- Donna Lamb, ex-Flack
Some of my books and stories are sold through DopplerPress to help support BigCloset. -- Donna
I Can Not Comment
.. on Tuck UNTIL Ellen Hayes brings the language and feel of TUCK back down to what is was in the beginning and get it off its hypersickening tensified stressful feel. I cannot immerse and attempt to live in it. Stories I cant do that to in order to visualize it, I avoid. The last 30 some chapters have been awful! Plain and simple! All Because of the language and feel. Ellen Hayes has it in her power to put things right. Whether she chooses to do so is up to her. If She would like my comments, She needs to alter the story back to within the original framework where every line isn't cussing and talking back and interrupting. One can definately see some of the niceties the first 30 or so chapters of Tuck had.
I dislike writing comments which are not nice, but at the same time, I feel you should know why I will not comment on the story. I LIKED the first 30- 60 chapters of TUCK a lot, it went slowly downhill from there for me.
When TUCK changes back, my comments will reappear.
Sephrena Lynn Miller
I don't feel this is a legitimate criticism
The first 30 or so chapters of Tuck are much like the current chapters in tone and voice: that's the very thing I like about them. And, as I said somewhere, I've read the whole thing six or eight times. It's always been full of irreverent cussing, paranoia and slapstick.
To me you seem to be complaining that things should not be so rough on poor Tuck. But Ellen set this up long ago, from the very beginning Tuck was afraid of getting killed by some homophobic asshole and it almost happened. It's Chekhov's Law, Ellen had to do it.
Tuck's been down before and got up again. In a year, Tuck has been through a lot. These last two episodes just seem to me like Tuck beginning to discover the possibilityof fun again.
Life isn't all hair jell and candy Skittles. To me, your complaint sounds like you don't want Tuck to change after everything that has happened.
-- Donna Lamb, Flack
-- Donna Lamb, ex-Flack
Some of my books and stories are sold through DopplerPress to help support BigCloset. -- Donna
You Really Can't Go Back.
If the feel of Tuck is different now, there are many reasons, not the least of which is the pacing of the story: the early chapters covered a lot more ground than the newer ones. Between chapters one and thirty Ellen covered a period of around six months. In the last, what, ninety-seven since, there's only been another six month period or so covered. As the story goes on, Tuck changes, and consequently the feel and tone of the story change. This isn't the same Tuck from the first chapters. Since the story is largely told from his point of view, it can't be wrote in exactly the same way or tone and still be true to the characters. Give it time, and as he gains more stability the story may regain some of the old Tuck, but the newer chapters to me are just as good as the older ones, and display the same characteristics that made the first parts great- excellent characters, good flow, believable emotions, and lots of geek references.
Melanie E.
Im Not Referrring That Everything
...should be clean and made just perfect! Im saying the personality of Tuck spilled over to most the characters - with a lot of them cussing and talking back. The stressful mood created by watching Tuck Spaz out constantly is not the sort of thing I would read on a continual basis. Its like continual heartburn and acid reflux. The beginning 30 or so chapters DO HAVE a different feel. The cussing was NOT ANYWHERE as prevalent as it is NOW. The style of the story and the reduction of the stress and dialogue CAN GO BACK to how it was if Ellen wanted it to. Just because YOU say so, does not MAKE IT SO. So for ME, I do not comment on it at all anymore until the CURRENT STRESSFUL STYLE goes.
And its ashame. It is a good story and has good characters and good thought narratives. The allowance of a certain way of telling it might be the reason of deterring other people from either reading it or commenting on it. It goes hand in hand with the relationship the author has with her readers. If the audience she is attempting to write for loves that style.. great. If she wishes to maintain that for her audience, thats great too. Its whatever she decides is best for herself. So If I am not inclusive to that current audience, It will not harm me a whole lot; but overall I am slightly hurt she changed her target audience and it wound up dis-including me as a result. That too is fine.
[Edit]: Please notice in my prior comments to this thread, I did mention, what I thought about TUCK was in reference to how I thought of it. How it related to me. I am in no way putting anyone else or their views down. Everyone else is welcome to their own views to any story. Mine is not necessarily correct or prudent.
Sephrena Lynn Miller
What Makes My Response Illegitimate?
..Donna, everyone is entitled to a response to a story: good or bad. Its not that I do NOT want Tuck to change, in fact, I clearly stated the opposite! I DO WANT TUCK to change! To change from the stressful style Ellen has placed the entire story under and shows no signs of slacking off, to more like how it was in the beginning. One which was moving, more happier times with sprinkling of the bad language at appropriate points, but every character was more relaxed. The narrative was more readable to me. If you enjoy the story, I am glad you found it to your liking. Just, until the style changes within the writing, I must abstain. Does that make my response Illegitimate?
Sephrena Lynn Miller
As you say
You're talking about your reaction to the story. As far as I can tell, you aren't talking about the story. You want the clock to go backward. It can't. You say there is more cussing now. I don't see that so much, but these are 16 year olds where the story started with 15 year olds. Tuck has survived two murder attempts; there's a good reason if the cussing has increased. I just don't see your yearning for kinder gentler language to be legitimate criticism, in the literary sense, of the story. It's just reporting your feelings. You want Ellen to be responsible for your feelings but she's not. She's only responsible for the story and being true to it.
I'm not saying your feelings about the story are false; I'm saying they aren't relevant to Ellen's purposes or to the story's literary value. You no longer enjoy the story, fine. But if you want it to go back to being about kids who haven't gotten repeated death threats, it ain't going to happen. And that's the only way what you've expressed as your desire could happen. The story may get lighter, to my mind it has. Tuck is rediscovering fun. Good. But it can't go backwards nor should it.
-- Donna Lamb, Flack
-- Donna Lamb, ex-Flack
Some of my books and stories are sold through DopplerPress to help support BigCloset. -- Donna
Not illegimate to me...
... because all points of view should be respected. To me the precis is that you want Tuck to be something it isn't. Fine, but perhaps you shouldn't hold your breath...
I suppose that there's an element of incongruity in writing about your reaction to the current state of play, and describing it as 'why you aren't making a comment'. It sure sounded like a comment to me - although I grant that it was more a comment on the evolution of the series and of its eponymous subject than it was a comment on the specific episode. But it's valid commenting, and not offensive - so not illegitimate.
Looking at the area where you and Donna are at variance, my own family is the same shape as the Tucker's: girl-boy-boy, although my own set is slightly more compact in spacing. When the eldest son was 15/16 his rate of emotional change (I hesitate to use the word "development" which to me imputes a degree of progress) was marked. You could also see - if not from day-to-day then certainly from month-to-month - a halting, switchback, adolescence (lit. growing towards adulthood).
I found the episodes of Tuck which followed the near-fatal attack very edgy, and quite difficult to read; also, with a sharply-expanding cast and an authorial switch from the time-stamp style, they were difficult for me to follow. But they were not any the less real, nor any the less engaging. Harder work for this reader to be sure, but to borrow from Michelin, very much still "vaut le voyage".
Xi
BTW
I write "near-fatal attack" rather than "murder attempt", because here in the UK a 'Murder' verdict requires the prosecution to prove specific intent to kill. I didn't read it as that, rather that it was merely(!) a very serious intent to harm. I suspect that none of Tuck's assailants could be convicted of murder here. The charge would be 'Manslaughter' which I think is very, very, roughly equivalent to 'Murder Two'.(?)
Assault
Different states have different rules, in most states Murder is homicide with intent to kill or homicide in the process of committing some other violent felony. Manslaughter is felonious homicide without intent to kill. Since these were juveniles, the charge would probably be Aggravated Assault or the equivalent bargained down to Assault in exchange for a plea. But since there were definite elements of planning and conspiracy involved, an attempted murder charge is in the realm of possibility.
In some states, you can get a conviction for murder without proving intent to kill by proving an alternate theory of depraved indifference, or depravity, or singular or special cruelty, states vary on the wording. This is usually in cases where the victim dies after torture that may not have had the intent to kill.
The above is simply based on a lot of reading on the subject and is not a legal opinion since I am not a lawyer. I've only researched this for story purposes.
- Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
I'll admit it
I haven't read Tuck. So I can't comment on the changes in tone that may be therin. But it is a fact that the characters can and do take their own course in a story. It's a progression as they become 'real' as far as the writer can do so. I suppose the longer the tale the more likely that all those little idiosyncratic foibles and mannerisms will come out. No doubt many regular readers would say.. ah,Tuck would do this or not say that.. in a given situation, because they have a personality. They are people.
In our back and forth over his take on my recent one Nick commented on a few of my suggestions that the details I was expressing about the characters were not evident from the story. I guess not but it's there in my head. In a long tale it will come out and the people become more human and real. Ya can't please everyone everytime...or even close.
Why haven't I read it? Well like a few others out there...there's just too much to catch up on. New and recent and working on your own or maybe the odd proof for someone....tick, tick, tick... only so many hours and all that.
Maybe one day...
Kristina