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this is just something that i am wondering. I have been reading a very good enjoyable story of this college boy that is going to daily classes and interacting with the students, as a full time girl. They relate to him as any other girl and its a fun story.
but, near the start of this story, he had a meeting with some of the teachers, the coaches and administrates and told them he was a boy. He is honest, and doesn't want to cause any problems. And about that part, I palm faced
to be accepted, you have to consent to have them look into your records. you have to sign forms, and even your social security number. they look through everything. So they have to know, and been okay with it
but that part was written as if it was a shock to them at first. and I was like, REALLY? COME ON STORY
Well we are past that and now hes in his second year, and been admitted to the national cheerleading organization board
and none of them know. And im thinking, he would have had to sign some documents and they would look into his records to be on their board. But they dont know, they think hes just some other college girl
its still a very good story. Its the Lee Corcoran stories. they are very popular and well written.
Your Decision to Enjoy or Not.
I am hoping that someday this whole schemele about gender will be forgotten. There are many who are not really male or female and hurt no one. I came out of very asinine conservative Christian background and they have more blood on their hands than anyone. If one does good, and loves justice...
Hello, Gwen.
Hello, Gwen.
Personally, I don't know if the... schlemiel about the gender thing could actually be swept under the rug - after all, the gender issue is central to the storyline: I haven't read whatever story/stories this was about, but I gather that, in the first part, it was about the main character integrating into her classes, but she informed her teachers about her gender, and the following parts was about her being part of a cheerleading squad. So I think the gender thing won't be swept under.
But I think you mean that the readers should be less pedantic, and not concentrate on the "mechanics" of the thing - that it's not about who has access to personal records or et cetera et cetera, but rather it's about the story, and that the writer seems to be asking for a bit of suspension of disbelief, or perhaps the writer was indulging in some poetic license.
I think I have to agree with that, even if the factual basis of a detail of a story is not completely correct or even plausible, if the story's good, then that shouldn't matter, and the writer should be given a pass. But I think the central issue here is if the storytelling's good, and if it "reads well" i.e. it is enjoyable to read.
If that was your point, then I agree. But if your point was to bleep over a detail regardless, then I have to say I don't agree.
As to the detail of who in school/college would have access etc etc, I can only speak of my own experience: when I was still in school (this was many moons ago - late nineties/early 2000s), in my college, my professors had student cards that included their students' full name, nickname, gender, dorm (if they were living on-campus) and major/minor. It was explained to me that, in GW, instructors and professors needed this basic information to be able to tailor their advisory and instruction methods to the individual student. But that was close to 20 years ago, so I don't know if their current policies have changed to suit the times.
Btw, a schlemiel is someone who's very clumsy, and a schlimazel is someone who is very unlucky. But I got what you're saying based on context.
Laverne and Shirley (yep, I know about them
) didn't really explain.
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The way it was described to
The way it was described to me (Jewish customer) is that the guy carrying a wooden box full of glass bottles, who then drops it, is a schlemiel. The guy whose foot it lands on - he's the schlimazel.
I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.
Thumbs up!
"One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight! Schlemiel! Schlimazel! Hasenpfeffer Incorporated!"
- Laverne and Shirley
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As a teaching assistant
at a major university I can tell you that the class roster simply had a name and ID number (which in this case was the student's SS#). Even the student Id only had a pictures and student ID# (I still have mine). With a name like Lee no instructor would have any idea about Lee's sex except for what they see with their eyes. The cheerleading coaches were not the ones surprised it was the other cheerleaders who Lee told; in part because they were doing a lift where they might encounter something no girl has. The coaches all knew when they recruited Lee that he was male. The transcript submitted indicated the male gender so the administration was aware but it was not general knowledge
Commentator
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most of the story is about her being on the cheer squad
It almost started with that. A large part of the previous chapters and books detailed her adventures in high school leading the squad as a freshmen and bringing them up from a poor squad thats almost a joke to a national recognized squad that won first in state, and then first in the nationals as a senior. She, or he has an almost unnatural ability to impart her knowledge to others,and help them improve. And he has some extreme charisma.
Lee has almost the fanatical support of his squad, and the high school teachers faculty and coaches. He even had the football team protecting him after a violent attack
its a great story. But, applying to college and getting accepted. and fearing that once the school finds out hes male, that they will reject him after all he has done. It seems silly. But he calls a meeting of the universitys staff, and the schools coaches and informs them that he is male.
He even asks the schools recruiter if he being male is a problem.
And they were shocked. But then informed him that it wasnt a problem
The coaches after he was accepted seemed surprised. When I think the proper answer was, "No Shit. Like we didnt know. You signed your name on our forms, and your sex as male. Your school history shows you started as male. And were male. Thanks for the info. You lead your squad to winning nationals. We want you on our squad"
he only has to start dressing full time, and presenting himself as female because for some reason, it was a requirement to be on the cheer squad.
that also didnt make much sense, but it was a great story so I went along with that reasoning.
Stepping into the 21st Century For Real
I'm just voicing my impatience and frustration that anyone should have to worry about those issues. As Homo Sapiens, it is illogical to force anyone to wear certain clothing. There are huge areas of the world where skirts do not denote gender, as is done in areas in the South Pacific, and amazingly in Mongolia. It is our cultural mores that are insane, not those who wish to step outside of the Judeo/Christian ethic that is forced on them.
After having lived it for 15 years and post op and on hormones, I can see that I'd have been happy living as a male and letting my female side out as needed. Probably about 40/60 I'd guess. No one should have to conform to the rules of one or the other.
Gwen
Suspended Disbelief
I believe the author has given us good and valid reasons for why and when Lee discloses his birth gender.
To me, the series is a discussion of what gender really is and why it matters -- or doesn't matter.
There are those who have cared along the way, and Lee has left them flummoxed by the disregard he has for traditional roles and the lack of consequences he experiences for his non-traditional actions. They chose to ignore his breaking of social norms because he's just a wonderful person . . . and oh well . . . who cares.
In the end, will he become a broken person? Several times he's come close to bringing ruin on his closest friend or himself.
I love this series.
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Paper work, meh
Given the number of students any given instructor might have in a college/university it is quite plausible that the information, while filed on paper, it is not filed in the heads of the instructors. So, if our protagonist turns up in class presenting as female and interacts with the instructors and other students as such, what's on file is not remembered and they then accept the student as female.
So, while the faculty might know, the don't know. Now, people who don't interact personally with the student and are responsible for assigning dorm rooms and PE classes, or sporting teams would likely know, but not playing an active part in day to day interaction wouldn't affect the perception of those that do.
Hugs
Patricia
Happiness is being all dressed up and HAVING some place to go.
Semper in femineo gerunt
while the admin might know
there are STILL confidentiality laws, and only those who NEED to know should be informed, such as medical personnel, etc. the average teacher would NOT know necessarily unless the student's confidentiality was breached.
Teresa L.
I don't recall any of my
I don't recall any of my teachers having anything other than a list of student names. No gender, race, creed, religion, or discount club membership.
I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.
Student Information
I spent several (40+) years at land-grant universities teaching and doing research. The last few years, I was heavily involved in student records, grades, academic and disciplinary actions, etc. I would still only have access to pertinent student information and not to medical records or criminal records. BTW -- we did not use SSNs as student id numbers. The only way I found out about things like that was when the student released that information to me. Look up FERPA for example - if a student decided to stop his/her parents from seeing his/her grades, he/she could do that and the parents could not do anything about it! According to some folks, we could not even say if said student was enrolled at the university let alone say anything about any academic or disciplinary actions that might have occurred.
The Author's Perspective
Commentator and Angela Rash[Jill] have covered several of the key elements.
1. In high school, everyone at the school knows Lee is a boy. He hangs with the girls and dresses similarly. Are there schools with this much acceptance, let's hope so.
2. Obviously the parents know what is going on.
3. When looking at schools, the USC recruiters were informed of his gender prior to making the offer.
4. The kids want to go to Michigan and at the dinner inform the recruiters, head baseball and head cheerleading coach along with Lauren and Rene, the two girls they will share a suite with.
4. After making the squad, Lee, who throughout the series has tried to be upfront an honest with as many people as possible, informs the captain and assistant of his gender because of the aforementioned lift issue. After they agree it is not a problem, they further inform the rest of the varsity cheerleaders. They do not call any other staff or teachers. No one else is informed.
5. In today's environment, universities cannot reveal anything about a student without permission. Class rolls have a student id and the name.
6. There are obvious issues which require suspension of belief, but I try not to discuss or highlight them. I had an extensive conversation with one or two readers who felt using a real public university was somehow insulting or defamatory to the university.
This is fiction. Half the stories on the site often include magic, bodysuits, or drugs which exist only in the mind of the author.
My goal in the series is to have good people leading semi-normal lives and overcoming the hurdles presented before them. Some of those hurdles are due to Lee's clothing or life selections. Some are tied to the story lines. I like Lee and wish I knew more people like Lee and Darby, their family and friends.
I hope that helps.
Either way, Thanks for reading.
DD
Lee's choices
Because Lee as a cheerleader is required to live in the cheerleaders dorm for the first two years and cheerleading as well, choose to present as female full time as to avoid confusion with changing from male to female presentation all the time which if you read the books presents other interesting problems.
As far as documentation goes Lee has always ensured that all his documentation has been filled out correctly including his true gender. As far as the cheerleading association is concerned when the high school entered the cheerleading competition the first year he was registered using his true gender along with the rest of the team. It is reasonable to assume that not everyone one the board gets to see the records due to privacy and staff in confidence issues so while a select few maybe aware of Lee's true gender the rest believe what they see. This leaves us with some options;
one- They see Lee presenting as female and assume he is having not read the fine print on the documentation or not realizing what they have read.
Two- They have read the fine print and do know that he is male but assume he is trans gendered due to his presentation and treat him as female.
Three- when they where looking at putting him on the board they looked at their records saw that he was listed as male, assumed that it had been entered wrong and changed it to female.
However they got there the board it seems see him as female, this observation is based on how one of the board members reacts to Lee's romantic situation.
These are just my observations and opinions, only as the story continues to unfold will we find out how all this plays out. I am looking forward to the eleventh book with great anticipation.
legofun