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Before you read on, let me start things off by saying that I am trans m2f. Figured since I mostly keep to myself on here it might help to throw that out when reading the rest of this. Carry on!
I’ve never been one to really blog or get on the soapbox about serious matters in life, but something is making me do that at least once. I don’t want to complain or rant or b**** about anything or anyone so I’m really hoping I don’t end up doing so here. Today, I finally came out to my mother. Second time I’ve told a family member, the first being a cousin who was super supportive and started using my femme name right away. This time things did not go as smoothly. I won’t say it was the worst experience ever because the whole conversation was short, but it was still the most nerve-wracking/aggravating thing I’ve done lately.
She’s known about the crossdressing I’ve done since I was 12 and she caught it. To her, that was me maybe being gay (I decided now wasn’t the time to approach matters of sexuality) so she’s asked me, every once in a while, since college if I was gay. I finally asked her today what her motivation was for asking me all the time and she brought up the crossdressing. Of course, this launched her into a whole spiel based on “God’s book” (my headache still hasn’t gone away from how hard I rolled my eyes at that one) and this and that. I tried to counter with something and was told my argument wasn’t a good one (mostly because it wasn’t pro-her stance I think), so I kinda gave up…
…But it sure didn’t stop me from telling her that she didn’t have to worry because I wasn’t gay but had been seeing a therapist for a couple of year for being transgender. She just looked at me like I spit on a Bible and asked me if I seriously thought I should be a woman. You know those moments you have an internal dialogue with yourself debating which route to take right then and there? Yeah, by this point even that little angel on one said was agreeing with the little devil and said “go for it!”
So I said “Yep!” She decided then that when she stumbled trying to think of something to say that she didn’t want to talk about it. This also happened 3 and a half years ago the first time I tried to approach her about it. Not sure what to make of it right now except that I am kinda proud of myself for saying anything, but I don’t know how successful this venture was short and long term. I just know I don’t regret saying anything this time.
Thoughts? Witicisms? Moments of Zen, anyone?
(Oh, and thanks for taking the time to read this…)
Dani
Comments
Mom Knew From The Beginning.
Most people thought I was very feminine right from the beginning. In the 40's and 50's that would get you killed and your body dumped. My stepfather often said he was going to kill me if I did not man up, and I tried to. I remember her talking about my being her daughter and having a feminine sounding name, Gwen. It was actually Gwinn but that just got me ridiculed.
I think that most t folk have had similar experiences. And, I think I could have made it as a Native American Two Spirit, which is different from the LGBT Two Spirit. No surgeries, or hormones, just being who I was. Being out as Transgender in American culture is much harder than it should be.
Perhaps you'd just want to give up on your Mom?
Best.
Gwen
Well, you aren't wrong on that last part
Well, you aren't wrong on that last part. She has told me multiple times over the last couple of years that she is very much not going to change her mind on certain political or social stances. Plus, with what she said connecting some dots in my head about what she knew and felt and where I am with things, I just don't know that I need or want to waste that energy. I told a close friend that this incident with her was cathartic at best and worst, so I will take that as a good enough next step to going Dani full time now. Some of her views on LGBT people are just downright WTF material...
Also, the name Danielle I planned on using was a name she once told me she would've used if I was born a (cis)girl so there is that little victory for me in claiming it as my own choice. I'll call it my proverbial hair flip as I walk out the door.
Not to blame your mother....
Because she is basically just repeating what some Bible thumper told her to believe, but....
Those ...thumpers are hypocrites.
Those people usually claim the Bible as the literal Word of God. Yet they only use the portions that fit their narrow view of the world and ignore soooo much of the rest of it.
They usually only hit us with a couple of verses from Deuteronomy and Leviticus but ignore the rest of it, like the spice laws we commonly think of as "Jewish Kosher food"
Anne Margarete
Comedic point... speaking of specific bible passages
The one moment that nearly made me crack up in all this was when she brought up Sodom and Gomorrah (every time I say or type that I think the green aliens from Jabba's palace in Return of the Jedi). I commented that even bible scholars are moving toward it being about the evils of greed and being complete jerks to guests she retorted with "well that's just bulls***!" Considering she hates swearing she caught me off guard saying that and I nearly lost it.
Most of Leviticus...
... is just an instructions on how to survive in foreign lands with no idea of what kinds of illnesses locals have.
As for Deuteronomy... I was not able to find any versions mentioning anything about gay or TG people. Most versions are short to extremely short and are, mostly, about how to select leaders in the tribe.
Bible!?
Which bible? Not counting translations there exist many edited versions of it. Multiple sects at and beyond the fringe of Christianity have rewritten the book to meet the needs and desires of a charismatic founder. I’ll mention also that the original compilation was to suit the wants and needs of Emperor Constantine of the Eastern Roman Empire. It contains less than a third of early Christian writing in the New Testament. Consult a Rabbinical Scholar about how abridged from the Jewish holy literature the Old Testament is. It isn’t even a Readers Digest Condensed version. (Now there’s a thought about a new translation/version....)
BAK 0.25tspgirl
Bible Version?
Probably whatever is sponsored by Southern Baptists and Fox "News"...
Bible version
If she's a "KJV Only" Baptist, I'm afraid your chances of reaching her are slim.
If you feel like indulging in some snark, and she knows her Bible well enough... If she rejects your message, knock the dust off of your feet as you leave. (Matthew 10:14)
But it is a part of the human condition that people are loathe to let go of the prejudices that they picked up in their childhood. It has nothing to do with religion. It could be any ideology or teaching.
1st: Good luck!
2nd: Family is important, being yourself and alive is also important.
3rd: Don't listen to anyone (me included). Your life is your life. Your family is your family.
How you make your live compliant with your family (or not?) is your business.
On the other hand, as a side note...
"Believe in Jesus" is a flawed concept. If there is/was Jesus - you should know that there is/was Jesus. Do you believe in house? Do you believe in mobile phone? Why believe if they are here? And need to believe in Jesus... just means that there is/was no Jesus.
This is not about believing or not. This is more of a way to blow up that small nerve cluster between the ears of Bible thumpers.
Another way is to have latest approved version of the Bible on hand. Give it to the thumper, ask to show where exactly it says that you are bad.
Be prepared to be beaten as existence of reality where Bible is not condemning what they believe it is condemning or need to use the small nerve cluster between the ears to prove the point may cause severe beating of everyone in reach... ;-)
I think some of the most
I think some of the most entertaining moments listening to my parents talk religion have been when my mom would say Jesus said this or someone said that and my dad just looks at her and calls her out for making stuff up because it is nowhere in the bible. Now imagine that coming from someone who grew up an hour outside of New York with a bunch of Italians and I think you get the flare he had with his arguments. He's not prone to being a thumper like she does, though.
Bible thumping
People are fond of using whatever scripture that they hold dear to rationalize and legitimize their prejudices. In most cases, they don't have the wit to even know that they are doing that. People don't tend to be introspective at the best of times, and if they can say, "GOD SAYS SO!!!" they don't have to think about anything else. After all, to them, thinking about it and questioning it shows a lack of faith.
But sometimes you can successfully lay some scripture on them.
But the LORD said to Samuel, "Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The LORD does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart."
1 Samuel 17:7
So, if they insist that GOD SAYS that cross dressing is a sin, then that scripture tells us that not dressing as your true self is a sin. You had better go put on a dress lest God smite thee!
OK, so God doesn't do the smiting thing anymore, and actually did it only rarely in the Old Testament. Also, we are no longer under the Old Testament law.
(I could give you a list of references for that, but just google on "What is the greatest commandment?" and "if you are led by the spirit, you are not under the law." There is also a place where Paul likens the Law to a nanny that is no longer needed.)
I don't know your mom. Will she listen to reason? Will you even be able to get it out before she starts interrupting you? So many people listen to man (their preacher) too much and the Bible too little.
So, if it's worth a try, you have a place to start.
Would love to say yes...
As much as I wish I could say yes, at this point I have no reason to suspect she would. She's known about this on some level for the last... ... we'll stick with for years and still would rather play angry ostrich that truly engage in a dialogue about it.To be honest, I feel kinda done with it more than anything...
I always had this picture than in between the Old and New Testaments, there was an angel who said to God in between smitings, "You know, God, these humans could be worse. I mean, you remember how you kept facepalming yourself over the whole dinosaur thing?" But I also once snuck into line for communion at a Catholic church (not Catholic myself) so I might not have the best frame of mind for these things...
God’s Holiday Plans
God and Moses were sitting on a cloud the other day and I overheard God ask, “What’s the matter, Mo? You look kind of washed out, tired. Are you ailing for something? Got a cold coming on?”
“Nah. I just been working for too long, too hard without a break As soon as I think I’ve got the Israelis and the Arabs talking to one another and it’s looking good, some Rabbi or Imam gets unhinged and flies of the handle and I’m back to square one. I need a holiday. I’m just going to have to let them get on with it while I recover because I’m no good to them as I am. I fancy a fortnight out in the Pleiades. It’s not expensive, the food’s not too heavy and wine is very tolerable. Nice climate and attractive waitresses. When did you last have a holiday, Gee?”
God shuddered and replied, “Don’t remind me. I was a lot younger then and still subject to whims and silly behaviour from time to time. It’d be a couple of thousand years ago. I went to Earth and took up with a pretty young thing going by the name of Mary. One thing led to another, you know how it goes, aural sex and she’s expecting. You think you’ve got it bad? The fuss that’s caused, nigh on a billion slaughtered over the millennia. It’s still going on. And as for the book they say I wrote, as if I come up with something so puerile, so illiterate and worst of all so inconsistent. My memory is better than that on a bad day. I’ve had to give up on the place. The way it’s going it’s not going to end till they’ve killed every last one of each other. No holidays for me, Mo, just not worth the bother. I’ll stick to working. Like you I’m getting nowhere. They’ll have to sort it all out themselves on Earth. So I’m starting all over again. I’m looking for a nice planet, you know, decent climate, food readily available and NO, definitely NO, snakes.”
Eolwaen
LookingGlass
Sorry LookingGlass,
I omitted to add, you are what you are. Why should anybody else even care? You take good care of yourself, girl. If you are a sin and an abomination there must be an awful lot of sins and abominations out there standing shoulder to shoulder with you. Sinners, Eyes Right, Forward, March.
Regards,
Eolwaen
Eolwaen
Oh gawd!
That is the funniest thing I've read all week! Thanks! Now to clean up the soda I spilled while laughing...
What does the Bible really say re transgender or crossdressing
Disclaimer. I'm a Christian, a fundamentalist at that. I firmly believe that the Bible is God's word, that it's true except for the parables in Christ's teaching which are clearly labeled as such, but even the parables contain truth in the lessons they teach. On with the comment.
It's true that the Bible does have a lot to say against homosexuality, so I can understand the Christian stance on that score. However the evidence that cross-dressing/transgender is sin is mighty thin. I consider myself to be a bit of a Bible scholar. I have had the pleasure of setting under the teaching of a doctor of theology. He tells me that in order to build a theology on anything it requires at least three passages that treat the subject in the same fashion. What's more they need to directly relevant to the subject. This can be judged by the context of the surrounding verses or the theme of the chapter.
That said, the only verse that speaks to cross-dressing directly is Duet. 22:5. As far as context, it's stuffed in to a chapter that reads like a potpourri of things that don't fit anywhere else. I'd suggest that you read the chapter for yourself. Take notes of all the requirements and prohibitions contained there that have been discarded. Two glaring ones is the prohibition of mixed fibers in clothing (that would mean no cotton/polyester blend) and the requirement of a parapet around the roof of houses.
I suggest that when met with Christian that is against you being trans is that you set them a challenge. Ask them politely to help you understand all the Bible has on the matter and to give you three verses you can meditate on. I've challenged three such people with that, including the aforementioned doctor of theology. Even he could only come up with Duet. 22:5. Even the best biblical scholars can't agree on what that verse is all about.
Hugs
Patricia
Happiness is being all dressed up and HAVING some place to go.
Semper in femineo gerunt
About Deut 22:5
What I've never understood about it and never had answered was why God, or any deity and/or high level entity, would be that concerned if my underwear had stretchy material mixed into them? I prefer comfort over chafing myself. And as the anti-homosexual passages go, I wonder how much of it is based on mistranslated words and political agendas of the times. I don't think it is a bad book overall, but I remember when I read through it I felt it needed to be taken with more than a few grains of salt. But I will definitely remember what you have said and use it next time. Thanks!
Deut 22:5 Mistranslated.
I've been told by more than one Jewish person, one a Rabbi, that the passage actually means that men and women should stay out of each others tents.
So no co-ed camping?
Huh... tents... I honestly would not have guessed that. Kinda makes co-ed camping sound like a no go. That's okay, though, because one time trying to camp on the Isle of Skye solidified the belief in me that future camping should be done in a beach side rental :)
(probably also a reason why I still live in a coastal tourist trap town...)
Religion
As a 'dyed-in-the-wool' atheist from the tender age of fourteen, I have a very simple attitude to 'god botherers' of every hue.
Religion is the root of all evil.
Religion
I think you have it in a nutshell, Beverly. The usual tactic of the god squad is to tell you that it's not the fault of their religion, but of the people who misinterpret it and use it for their own purposes. They lie, it is the religion and if they were sincere, which I don't believe either, they'd sort out their own and those masquerading as their own too.
I'm not prepared to waste my time trying to differentiate between between true and untrue believers. I don't have a problem with people believing anything they want to, as long as they leave me alone. After all, the tooth faery and Santa Claus never did me any harm, and I've always had a good relationship with the boob faery. But all too many don't seem to understand what 'Just go away and leave me alone means'. As to shutting the door in their face being offensive, to some folk, including me, their very existence is offensive, but at least I have the good manners when left alone to ignore them, but some do make that impossible. Like yourself I believe, my apologies if I have that wrong, I have suffered too much at their hands to find much tolerance for them.
Is 'Just go away and leave me alone' so difficult to understand? Or are they hard of understanding as well as hearing. It took me nearly ten years of extreme bad manners to stop the Jehovah's Witnesses from harassing me on my own door step (150 metres from the public road). What I resented was they turned me into somebody I didn't like, and I've never been over keen on men whose whose eyes are focussed a foot and a half below mine when they're talking to me. As for the women, I've always liked the name I've carried all my life but if I hadn't liked it I'd have been quite happy to accept one of the ones they have called me often enough. I've always thought that Jezebel is a nice name. Not keen on Harlot though.
Regards,
Eolwaen
Eolwaen
Probably a secret Sanskrit word
I always liked the concept of God as this otherworldly entity with His own set of Legos and science kits to make the universe. The longer I was mired in the different churches I started thinking the word "religion" had to be some secret phrase or word in Sanskrit that means "crowd control"...
On a post script to the debacle that started this thread, the next day my mother ended up in the hospital with sepsis. They've gotten her vitals back to normal ranges now but they have no idea how it happened in the first place. Safe to say it was probably just complications with her medical history, but dang if there wasn't a snarky side of me that wondered if it was karma. And in thinking that I feel slightly terrible...
And the word "jezebel" really does have a nice ring to it
Signed,
Jezza Belle, er, I mean... Dani