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So… the adventure continues, or something equally profound or pompous maybe, depending on your point of view.
Some six months back I posted a blog about the idea of… shudder, using an editor. As I've freely admitted I'm a bit freeform uneducated twit type stylist. So the idea of having someone else mess about with my masterful (mistressful?) scribbling seemed to be… not a good idea. Lose the spontaneous rambleness that is me in written form… well, something like that.
Still, I did after some consideration concede that perhaps there was something to be gained, learnt even. So I did begin a story with various intent and even approached a known editor type person who graciously agreed to take a peek.
But… well, life and stuff and just, things, happened and everything stalled for a while. But then, we have another contest and methinks… well after the, 'urk, Romance you've got to be kidding', thought. It was, hey, the whole try something to see if you can idea and so, I did. Once again I asked said editor person if she wouldn't mind and indeed she didn't and so…
I scribbled away and after a week or so I came up with a story. Now usually I will just get things to a certain point and go, right, that's it, let's post. But in this instance I lobbed the story to my esteemed editor. Next day back it came with some thoughts and ideas scribbled throughout and a suggestion or three at the end.
It is possible that due to the editing idea I was to some extent second-guessing myself because I doubted a few sections validity. Yes, some of that was indeed questioned, plus some things that I had also thought about. There were also some things that I had not pondered on, so I did.
Upshot I did a revision with some bits chopped and some tweaked a little and a few extra little thingies here and there.
Now having lobbed off the revision I'm sitting writing this and trying to see what I think and feel about it.
Some of the edit scribbles were pure proofing things that everyone misses, because after a while you could read the story over and over and you still will not see them. Some were purely educational as Angela (Jill) tried to get me to properly use those three dot thingies, yes ellipses, I know. Gabi tried to belt me with that a while back too, but I's a stubborn cuss. But it is better to use such things proper like I do believe, so… and then four, er…. To finish. See learn somethin' new everyday.
Other suggestions related to plot and character development along with a gentle poke at writing to a plan. That is I tend to womble on a bit and add extraneous detail that may be sort of interesting but doesn't really take the story anywhere. But well, I did trim some and perhaps it is unnecessary sometimes but then there's always stuff happening that just happens and goes nowhere and we don't get answers and… so some wombling stayed.
I guess maybe the question out there is, was it good for you? Honestly, I expected it to be harder, but then maybe Angela was going easy on me. It is I believe a shared thing, in this instance I write the story and then she looks it over to see any mistakes and then how it might be a little better than it is. As long as I am able to step back and look at any suggestions as just that, no problem. I am after all, free to use them or not. Of course if I just go, nah stuff it I'll go with what I wrote first up, then Angela would quite rightly say, don't ask me again. Co-operative, it has to be. I didn't use all her ideas, but I did look at them. Some made me think and I went with them at least in part. The story is still mine, though I believe better than the original. See that's the point, to try it and see.
Oh, the story came back with a general thumbs up and a few minor suggestions again. Again, I looked at them and used most, in my own way.
Like I said last time, or somewhere; I don't know it all or anywhere near it. Angela is more learned and has a possibly different approach and style. But I can learn from doing this and I did. I will try again, Angela willing and hopefully learn some more.
The story posts and then it's down to you guys. I will send the original un-edited version if anyone would like to compare, just drop a PM.
See it's all about the story and my relatively mild little ego can cope with another finger in the paint pot… sometimes. I would say to anyone that contemplates having a second set of eyes look things over, suck it and see. Nobody has to do nuthin', but it can't hurt to try.
Thanks to Angela Rasch and the other editors that do what they do. The fees are pretty reasonable too.
Respectfully yours
Kristina
ps….. should said story actually win anything in said contest any winnings will be donated to the Hatbox for general upkeep. Just a wee pinch of payback, in the unlikely event…. Thanks for this place Erin.
Editor’s Note:
Kristina left out a few things, which is strange for a wombler.
I always try to tell the author what parts of her writings I absolutely love. In this story there were several phrases that knocked me off my chair. I think it is important to give positive affirmation along with criticisms. Also, it’s easy to work with Kristina because I know she will stand up for her work. If I miss her point and suggest a change that goes against what she wants to say, I know she’ll push back. Likewise, she will take my suggestion and run with it, making it her own and raising the bar.
Thank you to the writers who allow people like me to hang around inside their heads. Most writers have such comfortable craniums.
Jill (Angela)
Comments
Still reading, but...
I like what you said: "The story is still mine, though I believe better than the original."
I'm still reading "Things Just Happen", and I like it quite a bit. The writing is very natural, very immediate, and I was drawn in very quickly.
It's interesting to read your experience with an editor... and I was going to ask whether you'd do it again, but you already said that you would. You certainly make it sound worthwhile.
Kaleigh
Then you would love it inside mine ...
it's a fixer-upper's dream, it's practically empty.
Um, did I just insult myself? As many of my heroines are blonde, how would I know?
* * * *
Kristina,
I tried to comment but my connection to BC imploded at the time. A gritty, down-to-earth story of two broken individuals groping awkwardly to find a little happiness and in the process find each other. It's very romantic when I think about it and some of the phrases are remarkable. The "cane toad" reference was vivid as were others.
John in Wauwatosa
P.S. I use a proofer , often Itinerant, sometimes other kind people, but they are in many ways more like editors in that I get often get suggestions, encouragement about bits that were particularly good and questions about passages that are confusing. It helps tremendously. Thanks gang.
John in Wauwatosa
Yay editors!
I'd have to say having someone edit my work really taught me a lot, and I'm immensely grateful for all the help. Although I haven't asked anyone to edit my work in a while, I still try to keep in mind what I learned when I create new stories. For a while, I've been trying out new ideas and experimenting. Some of the experiments didn't go as well as I'd hoped, but others panned out well. I think maybe once I've gone through my experimental phase, I'll be in the right mindset to be able to ask for the assistance of an editor. I'm just glad people have been so patient and even encouraging while I'm experimenting and exploring. :)
Editors....
I've used several folks now, for editing (& went back and looked at my first story)... (Actually Hidden Gifts has 4 reviewers/editors.) I thank them all for wading through my deathless (okay it's not really that good) prose.
Sometimes comments received are the "oh, duh. How'd I forget to write that", even though the reason is obvious - I knew my story so it wasn't needed. But, it was needed, since all the reader has is what ends up on the page. Other times, it's a simple word choice suggestion. These sometimes completely change the meaning (like you indicated they didn't get what I was trying to do). I don't necessarily go with their suggestions in these situations, but I treat them as places where I may need to re-word things (some of these re-wordings have caused addition of several paragraphs!). Sometimes, reviewers notice my characters doing something that appears out of character. And there, sometimes, they're right! Or, at least it's out of character as the character's been presented so far. MORE stuff to fix.
All that said - I've found that I can do some of these review things myself, if I take my nth draft and put it aside and come back in a week. Adding that distance seems to help (me anyway - You'd have to ask my reviewers if they see any improvement in what they receive.)
I get LOTS of suggestions (including a few that conflict). I'd say I probably take the vast majority of the mechanical ones (missing coma or wrong word, not caught by spell checker cause it's spelled correctly and I know what I meant to say, etc.) The word choice suggestions - they're ALL OVER the place... Some I take, some I use to hint I need work, and some I say "nope. not that".
One thing I've done with several reviews - when the editor has questions of me, or makes a side coment, or non-mechanical points. I regularly will put together a short doc with their comment and my reaction to the comment. Sorta, feedback on the feedback, in hopes it clairifies thigs.
Well, enough rambling here.
Annette
Sniffle ...
I miss MY editor ...
I am grateful for John in Wauwatosa and Scott Ramsey's work in helping out with an extra set of eyes.
Nicole (a.k.a. Itinerant)
--
Veni, Vidi, Velcro:
I came, I saw, I stuck around.
Nicole (a.k.a. Itinerant)
--
Veni, Vidi, Velcro:
I came, I saw, I stuck around.
I Also Miss Amelia
Although she drove me to distraction.
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Pretty Good Herself
As an editor as well as a writer...is Kristina. Since I stumbled into BC and took a deep breath and launched myself into the writing pool all my work has been previewed and commented on by Kristina (and by Nick B in former times. I'm so sorry he went). While I reckon I can handle punctuation and spelling OK I never have any idea whether what I've written is any good or just plain rubbish (no snide comments, thankyou very much). Kristina has helped me enormously by suggesting more natural and elegant ways to put things, stopping me from going OTT on occasion and curbing some of my stylistic failings, and yet she has always recognised where my story is going to and has never tried to alter its direction. She has,however, told me honestly if she thinks that particular piece of work has little merit and so a couple of stories have gone back to the old drawing board and not yet seen the light of day. Maybe they never will.
My point being? Some may have the confidence and/or bravado to write without editing, but I'm not one of them, and I believe I can often pick those stories which have NOT been edited. Very few of them would be better left as they are. While it would be unfair for me to highlight any particular one, I can think of a series that appeared on FM unedited, that I thought was a lovely story well told, but in drastic need of an editor for punctuation, spelling and general tightening up to improve its readability. The series has since appeared here, edited by one of our own excellent authors, and what an improvement.
So there you go. I am an ardent supporter and believer in editing, and, if editing is not a worthwhile exercise, why do publishers employ them? In the realms of SF magazines some of the editors were and are household names in their field. John W. Campbell at Amazing/Analog being one who was famous for his advice and rejection notes to aspiring writers. Since that magazine has been going for seventy (?) odd years they must be doing something right.
Anyway, I humbly thank Kris for taking the time and trouble to edit for me, and while I'm not good enough to edit for others I do try to provide some encouragement by commenting on their stories in what I hope they perceive as a helpful way. We are lucky to have wonderful writers here at BC and I for one don't want them to stop,
That's my two cents,
Joanne
More on Editors
A good experienced editor is worth his/her weight in gold. Look for someone better than a glorified proofreader, one who can comment on your plot in a helpful way.
But you have to be willing to let it all hang out and take what comes. Do you want to be at your best knowing that someone with experience has looked your baby over, or just take a chance and hope that you didn't create a hundred pages of garbage - and everyone of of us has written drivel!
The editor will be easier on you than your future public and publisher. In fact the editor should not be too easy, otherwise you won't learn anything.
That's enough drivel for now.
marie c.
marie c.