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I decided to write this entry when I saw Jill Macayla's blog entry "Testosterone Laden".
What I have to tell isn't entirely relevant to that entry, but I suspect may be an important observation the group needs to hear about.
I'm currently in my 50's. When I was in my mid thirties, I began to realise that there was a regular cycle to my TG/CD impulses. There would be periods when I couldn't care less what I was, then there would be other periods when I could barely control myself. There would be occasions when I would be walking along a street, for example, and see a girl or woman in a particular outfit, and instantly my brain would go into overdrive, and I would be consumed by what I would look like in that outfit, and so on. This might monopolise my thoughts for days, or possibly until I saw something else, in the street, a paper, or on the TV, and the new thing would take over my thoughts.
This would build up into a fever pitch, and then, over a brief period of perhaps half an hour to an hour, the fever would vanish, and I would return to 'normal'. It would be like going from a hurricane to a dead calm over that short a period. It was many years before I realised that there was a regular pattern to these occasions.
Once I did realise that these happenings were regular, I figured out that (i) they occurred at about monthly intervals and (ii) they also coincided with the times that I was most sexually active. From that I deduced that my impulses, physical and mental, were likely driven by my body's Testosterone. I also realised that my body, like my partner's, runs on monthly cycles, and I wondered about that, since conventional medical wisdom would seem to suggest that men's bodies don't do that sort of thing.
Now, normal (!) males seem to be always in a Testosterone high, in a perpetual state of oversexed excitement, and when I was growing up I could never understand why this was. True, I was attracted to females, but never to the extent that some of my contemporaries were. (I suspect some of them would have shagged a corpse if it had been wearing a skirt.) I was always a lot more discriminating than they were, and I looked for personality as much as physical attractiveness.
My conclusions, based on a sample of one, are that conventional medical wisdom is mostly bollocks - if you'll excuse the terrible pun. I believe that men's Testosterone levels do indeed run on a monthly cycle just the same as women's do with Estrogen. Judging by my own experiences, the levels aren't a sine wave, but more an asymmetric saw-tooth - building up at a steady rate to some point where the pituitary gland says "enough" and switches off production, before starting from the bottom again.
Why don't other people notice this? My theory is that although most men's bodies do this, the amount of hormone they produce is much greater than mine is, so that their bodies are saturated with the stuff no matter what part of the cycle they are in. This explains the "oversexed" part. I produce a fair bit less, so that sometimes I'm below the threshold and sometimes above.
This produces an interesting dilemma, and that is that I believe my transgender tendencies are fuelled by my Testosterone. You can see where I'm going with this. If I decided to have SRS, and lost the man bits, would that also have decreased my wish to be a woman? If I want to be transgender, and I most fervently do, I am forced to keep, and keep in good condition, the very parts of me I dislike the most.
Would the loss of the Testosterone be balanced off by the introduction of Estrogen? Only those who have had SRS would be able to answer that one. There's an interesting side issue with that one: normally, in a genetic female, her Estrogen is actually made from Testosterone, so she presumably receives some benefit from the intermediate product. In a transitioned female who is receiving HRT, presumably this doesn't happen.
Is this a reason why some of those who have had SRS feel deflated afterwards, since the thing that drove them forward no longer exists? Note: I do not assume that my ramblings above necessarily apply to all of us, just a proportion. After all, there are many reasons why we have ended up here.
I would be interested to hear others thoughts on my experiences, and how it might compare to their own.
Penny
Comments
Cyclical surges for males
There are studies that have confirmed males are cyclical just as their female counterparts and have mood swings just like their female counterparts.
My testosterone level is well below the normal average for females. My estrogen level is on an equal par with genetic females.
I have experienced what you were discussing, but my problem was I wanted immediate gratification. The more dressy the dress or girly the outfit the more wanton I became. My only way to get relief was to go home and put on a dress. Then I was insync with the female I observed.
I've never had a sex drive. I can count on both hands with fingers left over the total amount of sexual encounters I've had. I'm not bragging by any means. I often wonder why I am like I am. Sex is not a big deal for me. Maybe after surgery I'll be more sexually active, certainly hope so.
Jill Micayla
May you have a wonderful today and a better tomorrow
Jill Micayla
Be kinder than necessary,Because everyone you meet
Is fighting some kind of battle.
I Had A GG Ask Me
I had a GG ask me why her husband was always ready for sex every night and why there was times that she wasn't. I told her that her sex drive peaks around the time of ovulation. She told me that I was exactly right. Her husband doesn't really care nor understand. He thinks he should be able to have sex with her any time he wants to and doesn't consider her feelings at all. I think what you are describing is not exactly a normal male pattern. There are different things that come into play such as diabetes or medications that can affect the hormone levels of men. I have a friend who has diabetes and it affects his ability to perform. He tells me that his fantasy life is about the only thing he has left. His wife has gone through Menopause and her desire has dropped off as well. She sees intimacy as an uncomfortable "chore"
Normal male pattern
Well, no, I thought I explained that. It seems my Testosterone levels go from well below some arbitrary threshold (or used to, anyway) to some detectable level above. It was when I was at the top of the slope that my brain melted with TG/CD fantasies, and also then when I would most want to have sex with my partner.
I would guess that most normal males would have so much Testosterone that wherever in the cycle they were, they'd just be awash in the stuff. I don't identify with those at all, they are almost a different species to me. I'd rather have a nice cup of tea and a chat with some female friends.
And that is of course another irony: they stereotype me as male, and expect me to behave like one. I used to confuse them completely until they finally saw the real me through the stereotype. No, the female me is not pretty enough to be seen in public, regrettably, if she were, the problem wouldn't arise.
Penny
PS My partner has type II diabetes and it has affected her libido.
One could equally postulate that . . .
it's when your testosterone level is at it's lowest and your estrogen peaks that causes your TG/CD tendencies to manifest themselves the most.
Commentator
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Ups and downs
I've read about the male cycle as well. From my layman's reading, it is much milder than the one that controls the female reproductive cycle. So much so most people doesn't notice it. It's more like times they are feeling 'lower' than normal or perhaps times of increased libido. Now, how this ties in with TG girls and guys that may have neurological pathways and reactions to chemical receptors like that of the other sex, I can't say. Most males I've meet can usual take and leave chocolate. Not me! I'm not just a chocoholic, but a chocolate fiend. In stereotype Chocolate is more of a girl thing, but it does have a neurological effect. http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/choco.html This isn't a good example but the only one I can up with on the fly.
Anyone think of anything else?
Here is a site with a little more infor. http://www.altpenis.com/penis_news/male_period.shtml
Hugs!
grover
Chocolate!
Mmmmm! Weapons grade chocolate! Now you've started me off!
(Heads for kitchen cupboard)
Thanks? Maybe.
Penny
Synchronicity?
I've been thinking about this lately, and noticed that I am more aware of my sexual urges about once a month and it's something that occurred before and since surgery - that was 18 years ago.
Oestrogen and testosterone can be converted into each other, and body type can influence things - fatter people produce more oestrogen, skinny types more testosterone.
To believe it's just a question of hormones, except in the case of adolescents, is simplistic. It also depends upon life factors such as health, occupation, opportunity etc. and personality types - energetic outgoing types are more likely to be active sexually than depressed recluses. Things like culture and experience also make their mark, some one who has been sexually abused in early life may be put off intimacy for life. There is also one school of thought which considers many people who are transsexual have low to zero sex drives, if not asexual. One wonders if this is acquired or physiological.
Angharad.
Angharad
Angharad
Interesting
From my own experience, I knew from a toddler that I was female but did all I could to be accepted and loved. I had a frustrating and testosterone-fuelled teenage and 'cross-dressed' at every opportunity; if I wasn't doing it, I was thinking about it. I just wanted to be like the other girls.
I was a virgin when I married at 25 and have never had penetrative sex with anyone. I married because I was expected to do so. I was asexual until I came out in 1980, when I became a bisexual woman but still asexual in the male role.
I went back into denial in 1986, along with my sexuality and was asexual again until 1998 when I came out for the final time.
After starting hormones I was heterosexual, i.e. towards males. After GRS in 2004 I again became bi, gradually getting to today, when I consider myself lesbian, but 'take it or leave it.'
I can survive without a relationship and am content with my own company. But if the right person comes along, I wouldn't say 'No'.
Susie
Keeping the bits
There is a t-girl (an Australian dentist, IIRC) who decided to keep her testes after transition. The surgeon tucked them in somewhere -- out of sight, but still producing testosterone.
Tucking them in
As I understand it, there's a problem to putting ones testes inside, which makes me raise an eyebrow when every story here has their hero/ine do it. That's that there are consequences, as always. They're out there for a reason which is to keep cool.
I used to do a lot of cycling, with the usual Lycra outfits. While actually on the bike, the air flow keeps them cool, but they can get pretty warm when you're not actually pedalling (ie sitting in the pub/cafe). That, plus the inevitable saddle problem, is why a lot of cyclists have fertility problems, or so I believe. (Aside: I couldn't get on with the usual male saddles. I ended up with a gel ladies saddle which suited my wider pelvis - perfect.)
The problem I think is that if the testes are kept too warm, this increases the risk of testicular cancer. Now, I don't know if this risk is specific to one part of the tissue, or a general risk, but I would guess that keeping them inside for longish periods can't be too healthy. Tights, girdles, pantee corselettes, are we doing Darwin's work for him?
I don't know the answer to this one, except that perhaps there's a good reason why men prefer stockings ;). I wonder, if one was having SRS, whether the best option would be to not just lose them completely, but have (some of) the testosterone part dissected out and implanted somewhere within the body. Dunno. The medical profession has some old-fashioned ideas sometimes about what they think SRS should be.
Penny
Hot nuts
Many years ago (70s, IIRC,) someone tried to develop male contraception that consisted of heating the testes (microwaves was one of the techniques. Ouch!)
I have never heard of the increased risk of cancer, but it sounds likely. Other than that, the only effect I have heard of is reduced fertility -- something that isn't going to matter to a post-op.
Tucking and health
Warming the testicles reduces sperm production--temporarily, while they're warmed. Soaking the scrotum in water as hot as you can stand for a certain amount of time has been used, or so I've heard, as a form of contraception in parts of Africa. This is, in fact, why they hang outside the body, unprotected, when in most other animals they're either inside or held closely against the surface.
The idea that warming them also increases the risk of testicular cancer is, as far as I know, an unwarranted extrapolation from the observation that undescended testicles are more prone to cancer. I've never heard, for example, of epidemiological studies showing a higher rate of such cancer among those who wear briefs vs. boxers, though there are such studies showing slightly increased rates of infertility.
T surges and TG urges
I had a hormone-fueled cycle years ago--a Honda CB550 Super Sport. I sold it when my first son was born, as I didn't want him to grow up short one parent.
Facetiousness aside, I feel as if maybe my personal experience can help shed some light on your dilemmas.
First off, I had a brief bout of gynecomastia (spontaneous breast growth) about four years ago. I had some seemingly unrelated symptoms along with it, such as vertigo, and started keeping a journal to see if I could detect any patterns. It turned out, I could.
My rate of hair shedding (as measured by how much collected in the shower drain each morning), my sex drive, fluctuations in my weight, tenderness in my breasts and irritability thereof, a feeling of crampiness or achiness "down below," and one or two other things, all appeared to follow a more-or-less monthly cycle--one that, I discovered when I mentioned it to my wife, matched hers. I mentioned this to my doctor when I saw her about it, and she sort of scratched her head and mumbled something about synchronized cycles and pheromones, then shrugged and moved on.
The monthly cycles in other things continued even after the spontaneous breast growth stopped (and along with it, the symptoms of vertigo), for another year or two, but finally degenerated into seemingly random fluctuations. Eventually I tried to research this online and as far as I could determine, there were a couple of researchers investigating and documenting hormonal cycles in men, but what they had found were nothing near as regular as those in women, and not monthly in duration.
When I started on androgen blockers, I briefly experienced the same set of symptoms I had during the gynecomastia, and some of the cycles returned to a more-or-less monthly pattern, especially the hair loss and weight fluctuations. Since I started on estradiol four months ago today, the "monthly" pattern has lengthened to about six weeks (possibly because my wife and I separated and she moved out shortly thereafter, so no more pheromones from her), the symptoms have all returned in full force, and my sex drive and other things are back on that cycle too.
Since the cycle is supposed to be governed by feedback between hormones produced by the ovaries and the egg follicles interacting with pituitary hormones, and I don't (as far as anyone knows) have ovaries or egg follicles, my doctor and I are at somewhat of a loss to understand it. Likewise with the crampiness and my apparent lack of a uterus; the same nerves are all there though, so my doctor suggested something akin to phantom limb syndrome, assuming my brain is wired to expect to be in a female body (which it certainly feels like to me). Except for the sex drive, it's all subtle enough that I wouldn't notice if I weren't keeping a journal anyway, so maybe it's not unique to me, and just indicates some hormone feedback cycle that isn't significant enough in most people to have been noticed and studied before. "Psychosomatic" hasn't been completely ruled out either, I suppose.
As for the TG urges following the sex drive, I have to say I worried about that too, even though I'd felt those urges since well before puberty--until I experienced the gynecomastia, which was initially accompanied by a months-long complete shut-off of my sex drive. During that time I was able to fully explore those feelings without that complication for the first time since I was eleven or twelve, and discovered that in fact the sexual urges had nothing whatsoever to do with how appealing I found the idea of living as a woman and having my body corrected. Being on HRT and having my testosterone shut off has completely confirmed that observation.
The androgen blockers alone didn't shut off my sex drive as thoroughly as full HRT has, but that still might be worth trying, as a relatively safe and reversible way to be sure. I was on spironolactone 100mg 2x/day and finasteride 5mg 1x/day. I never had my free Testosterone tested while on just blockers, but since adding estradiol it's consistently well below normal female levels and comparable to post-SRS levels, even coming up as 0 sometimes. Anyway I no longer have any concern that my desire to live as a woman and have a female body was in any way dependent on sexual urges (though the reverse might well be true, as transitioning has lifted me out of a lifelong depression I wasn't even aware I had been laboring under, and depression is known to impair the sex drive).
Of course, SRS is still in my future, and there's really no telling how I'll feel post-SRS. But I've always suspected the post-SRS letdown some women experience might be related as much to a feeling of "OK, achieved my lifelong dream, now what?" as anything hormonal.
Anyway that's my two cents, if it's worth that much.
Cramping
It's perfectly possible for men to have cramping. Although males don't have a uterus, it would seem that they have all of the musculature with the exception of the womb itself. Now, these muscles are developed slightly differently, natch, because they are used to perform different functions associated with masculine sexual functions.
But they are there, and it is perfectly possible for a male to have, for example, a vaginal orgasm. It takes some doing, and you have to be feeling really female at the time, but I have managed the experience. If you're in the zone, you don't even experience any male arousal. So cramping I could readily accept as possible.
On Testosterone, I thought that libido in women was driven by Testosterone in their bodies. The fact that yours is so low may have some bearing on your sex drive, but losing the depression has to be some compensation.
On another note, I also noticed that my cycles ajdusted to coincide with my partner's, except that my most active time was usually when she was having her period. Go figure. Fortunately, it didn't prevent us from having children.
Penny
Compensation?
Testosterone mostly, yes, though I think progesterone might contribute. For me, though, no longer being a slave to my T-fueled sex drive, not having that lurking beneath my every thought, has been a huge relief, and its own compensation. In other words I see that as a major benefit of HRT, not an unfortunate side-effect.
I wouldn't have foreseen feeling that way about it a few years ago.
Crossdressing, Sex Drive
I first crossdressed when I was 4, but I think I got into terrible trouble. I don't know what happened because my memory of much of the time between 4 and 8 is blocked or gone. I started again at 10 and I dressed at every opportunity I had. I had a late puberty. I had a 5' 6" to 6' growth spurt sometime when I was 16 or 17. I also became able to build muscles. I was weak and had little hair before this.
I tried to start growing a beard at 19; it grew in mostly (not very high on my cheeks) when I was 20 or 21. I was on the light weight rowing team in college and became fairly strong. During the last part of high school and thru college, my crossdressing ergs and activity when way down, but I was continually TG fantasizing. I was attracted to girls without regard to what they were wearing. I actually adored the hippie look; bellbottom jeans, any androgenous top and long straight hair. I was very shy, tho'. I finally had sex with a girl when I was a senior and ended up marrying her. I was interested in various sex partners for about 2 years, until I got engaged (and never cheated). My success was limited. I was impotent with as many girls as I had sex with, about 4 each. I only performed fairly well once, but that girl already had a serious boyfriend; it was just that he was in France for a year.
My T was measured in my mid 20s, mid 30s and at 41 when I started hrt. Each time it was about 90% of the low end of the normal range and I was healthy and athletic. I had maybe 20 hairs on my upper chest, the upper extent of my pubic hair was flat/horizontal; nothing grew up toward my bellybutton. Hair on my arms was very light, altho some grew to be 3/4 inch long.
When I first lived with my ex, we had sex everyday, but by the '80s I had to beg for it and it declined to twice a month. In '85 my ex was in Europe, consulting for 3 or 4 months. I was dressing after work almost every day, I was also try to learn to walk properly, etc. When I had a trip to France to visit my ex I couldn't get excited in bed with her. I was impotent. If I thought of fem things like clothing, I went flat really fast. I never got hard seeing anything, a picture, movie or a person. I also couldn't get hard imagining any girl, womyn, she male, etc. I needed to start foreplay to get excited. I finally hit on zen meditation, keeping my mind completely blank, during foreplay with my ex so I could function.
Up to '91 when I started hrt, my sex drive (to have sex as a male) just kept getting lower. I still begged for it occasionally, because I craved the body contact, getting my ex to come and some tension relief after ejaculating.
After about 5 months on hrt, another preop in a support group we were in started hitting on me. E seduced me (no penetration). I had a mild orgasm and wondered what the heck that was. We continued and I had a fantastic, sensational orgasm that really blew my mind. I knew then that being post-op would be fine. After that and then after healing from srs, I had a lot of sex drive and quite a bit of sex.
I never really noticed any cycles to my sex drive or horniness.
Hugs and Bright Blessings,
Renee
Hugs and Bright Blessings,
Renee
Physically Active TG with no Discernible Cycle
Before I say anything else, I have to rant about chocolate. I love chocolate! It perks me up like nothing else, especially dark (plain) chocolate. Mmmmmmm.
Now then. I'm very slender and very active, and my libido is annoyingly strong. I don't take any hormones or hormone blockers and I haven't noticed any cycles, so perhaps I'm one of those who is always saturated with testosterone.
I'm definitely transgender. I knew it from around the age of 12 when I tried on a girl's one piece swimsuit. I'm very feminine inside. I've taken several tests and found that I have a very feminine brain. I think some hardwiring in my brain must be more influencial than all the testosterone coursing through my body.
I guess I'm more like a tomboy as I am now. I'll never have SRS or facial surgery (it would take far too much work to feminize my face) and I don't like synthetic hormones. I feel stuck in gender limbo, trying to find a healthy balance I can live with. I'm still trying. *sigh*
- Terry
Stuck
Yes, that just about describes me. I am somewhat similar to you in some respects. I started at 10, but I knew that there was something different many years before that. (There was a terrible scene at a wedding when I was three, but I digress.)
I'm definitely not male, although I pretend to be one in public life. Unfortunately, I've been soaking up testosterone too long to be able to make a social success of SRS. There are a couple live round here, and they look like nothing on earth. If I were to be entirely physically female, I wouldn't want to stand out at all.
I'm also not entirely female. I guess I'm somewhere in the middle, trending towards the feminine side. I'd like my breasts to be larger than they are, because I still have to wear a little padding (I can get away without, but the proportions aren't quite right). I don't mind looking odd: I've been odd all my life and "I likes it that way". Besides, gynecomastia is all the rage now, isn't it, what with all the chemicals in the water supply and so on.
I guess, like you, I'm trying to find a balance somewhere in the middle, neither fish, nor flesh, not good red herring. After many years of heartache, I think I'm getting closer.
Penny.
PS I eat more chocolate than all the rest of my family put together, and no, I'm not fat. I only eat the dark stuff too. I usually have to ration myself to avoid total pig-outs.
Yeah, about chocolate...
I've always liked chocolate, a lot, but now--OMFG. Since I started HRT it's like heroin or something. And the darker, the better, whereas I used to prefer milk chocolate.
What is up with that? Not that I'm complaining....
Swimsuits
It's interesting that Terry should mention a swimsuit as the first feminine article of clothing at age 10. Mine was a swimsuit at about 9 years of age. Being a latch key kid, I had plenty of time to explore this and quickly graduated to raiding my sister clothing on a regular basis during the school year for an hour or so of femme time Monday through Friday.
I've read so much in the above posts that are applicable to me. Chocolate, as Homer might say, UMMMM, Daaark Choooocooolate! I love dark chocolate, so much so, my family considers it to be a viable Christmas or birthday gift for me. Both my daughter and my wife have resorted to dark chocolate as gifts.
Hair; while the hair on my head is baby fine, the hair on my body is almost nonexistent. What is there is so fine and light colored as to be invisible except in bright sun light when it tends to catch the light and shine a bit. I couldn't grow a beard if my life depended on it and my pubic hair is as described; flat across the top with no tendency grow a point toward the belly button as I've seen on many men, but more in the pattern seen on women.
I feel like I'm in the middle somewhere. I call myself a feminine man. My emotions, my thought patterns and my internal feeling about myself are definitely feminine, while my body strength and sex drive definitely masculine.
Oddly enough, I'm mostly comfortable in my own skin. The only modification I would make would be breasts. I have a very mild case of Gynecomastia. Not enough for anyone but my endocrinologist to notice. He says that it's not unusual at my age. (64) I'd like to have B cups, but alas my wife won't hear of any implants, or I'd start saving my nickles and dimes. :o( The mayor of a small town near me had implants and is living as a woman. He was a council member elected as a male, took off a term and had the implants and then was elected mayor. I think I want to retire in that town.
Mind you I enjoy functioning as a male in my marriage, I just want to express my feminine nature and dress as I feel. To that end, I wear a bra 24/7 with prosthetics that are nearly A most of the time and a full B in the evening and on weekends. Makes me like the way I see myself in the mirror. It looks so natural that my doctor assumed I had breasts during my physical and wanted to do a breast exam.
Hugs
Patricia
([email protected])
http://members.tripod.com/~Patricia_Marie/index.html
Happiness is being all dressed up and HAVING some place to go.
Semper ubi femininus sub ubi
Hugs
Patricia
Happiness is being all dressed up and HAVING some place to go.
Semper in femineo gerunt
My experiences are a little
My experiences are a little different, in that I never cross-dressed until I was getting ready to go full time, or always cross dressed until then! ;) While I envied girls the greater choices and generally more attractive clothing available to them, I felt no real compulsion regarding clothes. I feel more of that now, if anything!
As for libido, what's that? ;) I don't have much, but I did before HRT. I don't miss it. I might feel differently after SRS, I don't know. I can't begin to guess how mine compared, before.
I never noticed any kind of cycles before HRT, but I sure do now! Cramps, depression, anxiety, bloating, etc. I get it all. Intensity varies, but most months it's quite noticeable. I know people say that diamonds are a girl's best friend (or chocolate) but I think it's Paracetamol (Midol, Premsyn, etc.)! Chocolate's good, too, though! :)
I have no concerns about SRS, except about how soon I can have it! I've known I'm a girl for as long as I can remember, and have wanted rid of that particular disgusting lump of flesh just as long.
I suspect what someone else said may be accurate, that it's the low points in testosterone that fuel your TG feelings, rather than the high points. Makes more sense to me, at least. As for post SRS letdown, the also suggested completion of life long goal seems likely to be the cause in at least most cases.
Saless
"But it is also tradition that times *must* and always do change, my friend." - Eddie Murphy, Coming To America