Craptastic New Year

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Somebody talk me into keeping the site up and running.

Joyce

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Please continue

I would have commited suicide early last year if it was not for this site. Is that reason enough?
Hilltopper

Gina_Summer2009__2__1_.jpgHilltopper

It's one good reason

erin's picture

Thank you.

Hugs,
Erin

= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.

= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.

Thanks

erin's picture

We take turns, I suppose. :) I apologize for being in a bad mood tonight.

Hugs,
Erin

= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.

= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.

Why would you want to shut it down?

Angharad's picture

And what precipitated those thoughts? You know why it should be kept going, I'm more interested in learning why you think perhaps it shouldn't. Let's deal with the problem, not the symptoms.

Healing hugs,

Angharad

Angharad

I was gone for most of a day...

erin's picture

...and came back to discover three incipient flame wars. I make a post that people should not try to be provocative of angry reactions in commenting and someone decides I mean they should make only positive comments. This happens every time I ask people to try to moderate their anger in posting comments on stories.

I don't want to name names or point fingers but this and more all happened in the two to four hours after I got home. The rants and flames are a regular monthly occurrence by now. I get tired of it sometimes.

I have to be the conciliator, the mediator, the peacemaker and actually, I have a very hot temper and get angry and shout at inanimate objects when this kind of thing happens. Then I can be calm and rational online. But as soon as I had one thing cleaned up, something else happened, and sent me off to rant at innocent toasters and mild-annered towel racks. The adrenalin rushes took some of the resilience away, I'm tired but not sleepy.

At times like this, I long to just walk away and find something else to do with my time. I used to do a lot of writing but more and more, just running the site takes more and more of the day. If I get an hour to write once or twice a week, that's a lot now. I enjoy running the site and making it better, but sometimes -- I'm just tired.

Hugs,
Erin

= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.

= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.

Anyone who yells at toasters

...can't be all bad! :-)
How you maintain your own sanity with all of us I will never know. I realize we expect you to do this day in and day out like a den mother to a hundred evil self absorbed pre-schoolers.
What you do, you do so well that 90% of us probably miss the fuss and only hear about it after the fact and the bodies are removed and the blood wiped up. Then we read a blog entry saying there was some misbehaving and it is done with. I am sure some of us even go looking for traces of blood and tape outlines in the blogs to see what happened.
Erin, you are pretty amazing.

It's the right frackin' thing to do.

Of course you should yell at Toasters! Don't you remember what those frackin' cylons did to Caprica?

Nancy Cole

Nancy_Cole__Red_Background_.png


~ ~ ~

"You may be what you resolve to be."

T.J. Jackson

Eeeep! Not the Cylons!

Forgot all about the damn Cylons, no wonder she yells at the toaster, surprised she can sleep in the same house with one. Then there is the issue with the towel rack, such a thinly veiled metaphor that one is!

Easy for you to say!

Andrea Lena's picture
Actually, it really was more of a discussion,
and we were okay at the end of it all!

  

To be alive is to be vulnerable. Madeleine L'Engle
Love, Andrea Lena

Great minds think alike... I

KristineRead's picture

Great minds think alike... I immediately started thinking of The Brave Little Toaster ....

Erin, others have said it already, but you have created a unique place that I can't imagine being without. It is the first place I come in the morning, and the last I visit every night. Because of you I have made friends that I can talk to about Kristy that truly understand, and that is priceless.

Thank you so much for all you do. I wish that we could assist you more in dealing with the inevitable clashes that come up, it is the nature of families to argue... (How many of us had no conflicts while celebrating with the families over the holidays ;) )

As the matriarch of this very large family, I'm sure that it takes its toll.

Hugs,

Kristy

I love this site and would

I love this site and would be devastated to see it closed. It seems to me that the only logical option would be to disable the open comments. Leave voting open and let people send a PM to the author if they enjoyed a story or not. I do enjoy reading the comments that people leave, but I like reading the stories more.

I'm also one of those hardly ever leaves a comment on a story. Everyone has different tastes and ideas about how things should be, but as I'm not the author, I don't feel its my place to tell them they did it wrong, how do I know, its not my story to tell. I just enjoy reading the varied stories on this site and hope to be able to enjoy for a long time.

We all think differently and react differently, and with the relative anonymity of the internet it makes it easy for people say exactly what is on their mind because they don't have to look in to the eyes of the person they are talking to/about and see the pain their words inflict. Maybe thats the key. Imagine we are talking directly to that person when we are leaving comments. Let ourselves feel what they would feel as our words come out. Imagine looking in to their eyes and see if there is pain or fear or laughter and love. If what you feel when you do that is not a good feeling, an uplifting feeling, then just maybe you shouldn't leave that comment.

Thanks

erin's picture

And normally, that's exactly what I do before posting a comment, I imagine receiving it.

Hugs,
Erin

= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.

= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.

I Agree

Misha has expressed my thoughts exactly (if I were capable of composing as such) :)

Seems some people have very strong opinions on some hot button subjects and feel they must force their thoughts on everyone without regard to how others would take it.

Maybe, Erin, the site could use someone(s) to volunteer as a 'conscience' to relieve you from time to time.

I love this site and would sorely miss it if it were gone.

Rosie

Rose

Well said Misha!

I like your thoughts.

LoL
Rita

Age is an issue of mind over matter.
If you don't mind, it doesn't matter!
(Mark Twain)

LoL
Rita

Craptastic = A Part of Thousands of lives

You know how lucky I've been in having people like my stories.
You also know that I believe that this site saves lives by
letting people know that they are not alone in their struggle.
Not in an intellectual way, like looking up gender on quickipedia,
but rather in an emotional way that allows people to emotionally
understand, and bond. I'm so poor the church-mice make fun of
me, but that's therapy that you can't buy at any price.

Several times I've gotten notes from people who have been touched
by my stories in a very real-life way. Several days ago, a user
wrote to me and asked if I had a copy of the unicorn story, so that
she could print it out, and read it to her wife.
(Of course, it's that's the file my cat wiped out.)

Turns out, the nice user's wife has a very unhappy past just like
my own dear Paula, and she has bad dreams. But, that story is the
wife's favorite, and when that user reads it to her, she sleeps.
No bad dreams.

I spent several hours putting a file together for her, and I was
happy to do it.

The occasional combative and infantile behavior that comes out
from time to time, a thing of which we are all eminently capable,
really bothers me as well. Very much so. However, that may be
because the really good things that happen here, the example
above being only a little one, are much quieter. They are
harder to find, and so easily pass unnoticed and unknown by all
but a few. But... For all that, they are so very important.

If I did not have this place, I wouldn't have anyplace else to
go. Perhaps it's because it's unique, and perhaps it's because
I lack a spirit of adventure. I don't know. I only know that
this place you've created, and which exists by the efforts of
so many, just feels like home. I wouldn't even look for anyplace
else.

This site has made you a part of thousands of lives.

Sarah Lynn

Thank you all

erin's picture

I really do know why I do this. It's just hard to remember sometimes when you find burnt toast on the towel rack. :)

Hugs,
Erin

= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.

= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.

Erin, that really chaps my ass!

Here I go beginning to believe you were some sort of Lesser Goddess; nearly infallible but where in that underwear drawer of your mind did you come up putting burnt toast on the towel rack? How could you! Jeeze, on a New Years yet. That just sucks
I am so disappointed that you are merely super-human :)

It's my home also Erin.

I've been to all the others but this is where I'm staying!
I'ts like a big family, you get to know the authors and their style and also their comments on others are pretty predictiable?

LoL
Rita

Age is an issue of mind over matter.
If you don't mind, it doesn't matter!
(Mark Twain)

LoL
Rita

Sometimes, The Best Thing To Do Is...

When I was actively running a discussion list, the occasional flame war would pop up. In most cases, it was a simple misunderstanding. After a while, I discovered that if you just let it run its course, the players would either figure it out for themselves, or a third party would step in to either mediate or support the offended party. The power of the group to seek moderation and civility on their own is not to be discounted.

Although we don't always act it, we are adults on this site. If you were to throw up your hands, eschew responsibility for baby-sitting, leaving us to act as adults and deal with our own emotions and disputes as best we can, you might be pleasantly surprised as to how often it works out okay. It will certainly cause you less personal stress to not have to play full-time playground monitor.

Obviously, if a persistent troll makes a convincing case that they need banishment from the site, that's where you and your admins would have to step in. But, short of that, I think the type of real-time personality management that you've committed yourself to doing is overly burdensome on you, as it would be on anyone. A little more tolerance for "vigorous discussion" could conceivably result in a lot less stress and overhead, as well as an occasional interesting conversation that we mightn't have had otherwise, and some personality growth opportunities for some.

I still have an attraction to punsishment

I thought I had overcome such bent and sick desires, but they still rear their ugly head. Nothing sexual about it, it is most like hitting the total button on a calculator. I'll try to keep my tantrums to myself.

Khadijah

All I can say

is that you must be doing a damned good job of quenching flames. As much as I look at the site I've never seen one. I guess that menas they have been removed before I saw them.

Premod?

Not knowing much about Drupal, I don't know if it is possible to enable pre-moderation for certain users / topics - but even then, it might not be completely effective. Pre-moderation is the process whereby a new comment is initially held back from publication until a moderator has approved it.

Unfortunately, blanket pre-mod (premoderation of all comments) would take an inordinately large amount of time, as you'd obviously need several admins scattered across the globe to ensure 24 hour moderation (there'd quickly be complaints if no comments were moderated between, say, 1am and 6am EST!). Premod of new users would be more manageable, but you'd also need around-the-clock cover as people would get very uppity and may even stop commenting if there was a delay of more than an hour or so before a post got approved (the BBC contract in a company to moderate their blogs and message boards, and even then at busy times there can be delays of 3+ hours, which generates much venom amongst established users when they see a raft of "This comment is awaiting approval" messages!)

However, having been a regular on the BBC's PM Blog (which is reactively moderated - i.e. posts are only moderated if referred to the moderation team via the "Complain about this comment" link on the bottom of each post, which launches a form whereby you have to state which house rule has been broken and explain why), I've seen that although moderation can take the heat out of flamewars:
a) as a result there can be oodles of "This post has been removed because it broke the house rules" messages (comments are not removed entirely as it would upset comment numbering - rather the header is retained but the comment replaced with the boilerplate message),
b) Sometimes a seemingly innocuous post can be removed because it contained a link to a download or non-HTML document, or contained information which, in the moderators eyes, could potentially be used to identify a user (for a time in the PM blog, any mention of the word "Folly" was banned, because a user who posted under his real name and frequently stated the town he lived in, turned out to be the only person of that name in the relevant phone book, and he lived in "Folly Avenue" - so the mods determined that any mention of the word "Folly" in comments on that blog - even without the accompanying word "Avenue" - was a reference to him...),
c) it can attract clever trolls who sail dangerously close to the line, but not actually crossing it. There's one on the PM blog who has gone through about a dozen nicknames in the past year, who continually makes oblique references to other users or posts long economic rants extolling the virtues of communism, but who rarely gets moderated because he doesn't directly break any house rules or mention a user by username when flaming them. And as each comment is moderated in isolation from the rest of the thread...
d) yet at the same time, users who've been valuable members of the community can get banned for having multiple accounts (even if one of the accounts is disused) - while trolls such as (c) evidently manage to get away with the same...

-oOo-

So I suppose the best scenario, bearing in mind most threads die within a couple of days anyway, is to base your decisions on the viciousness of the comments (e.g. if they're genuine flames, directly criticising another user or user's PoV rather than merely proposing an alternative PoV) and the popularity of the thread (e.g. if it's only a handful of comments per 12/24hrs, it may die out naturally)

As the site grows in popularity, the number of posts will increase, as will the possibility of flames / flamewars. It probably is soul-destroying to wade in and sort it out, but it's probably also worth considering the percentage of 'flame' to 'non-flame' comments - if it remains around the same or even declines (even if the overall number increases), then the overall ethos of the site is maintained. If necessary, promote the "Think!" post to the top of the section when trouble breaks out, and see if anyone takes the hint...

Perhaps also, if the thread is starting to get long, unpublish the comments and disable commenting for a day or two (as you did a few months ago when a Bike episode triggered a vigorous debate on gun control) - especially if it helps reduce your tension as well as the commenters!

I suspect the overall percentage of 'flame' type comments is still quite low - so after dealing with an outbreak it might be worth scanning through a few other threads to remind yourself that the majority of us are quite civil the majority of the time!
 
 
--Ben


This space intentionally left blank.

As the right side of the brain controls the left side of the body, then only left-handers are in their right mind!

Occam's razor.

Your model of functioning of a site fine, but, in my opinion, very difficult. To divide users on "sacred", "corrigible" and "unrepentant" already in itself very few people will please. Besides all it is very labour-consuming. It is required to you, at least, dozen jailers (sorry, moderators) with whips.

It is quite natural, that unfairly whipped (oh, moderated) users will complain to the main jailer (sorry, to a moderator).

Thus the forum will function with 8 - 10 hour delay.

In my opinion, more reasonably simply to close a forum. Instead of it to make voting system. Brief and to the point.

If I have stepped out of line ?

Knowingly or unknowingly Erin I apologise and I would die if this site wasn't there to satisfy my addiction to the fantastic stories that you publish!
Sometimes I think that there is a small elitist group who try to dominate what should be published and what shouldn't via comments and complete silence with some others.
I probably get as mad as you but have never hung my toast on the towel rail, but plan to try it?
Sometimes late at night and that extra glass of wine caution is thrown to the wind against my dedication to only pass support and positive comments.
It future any derogatory remarks will be mailed to me only!

Please have a great 2010 & I'll look forward to keeping in touch throughout the year.

LoL
Rita

Age is an issue of mind over matter.
If you don't mind, it doesn't matter!
(Mark Twain)

LoL
Rita

Fine idea.

Someone has told, that it is necessary to just cancel comments to stories. Instead, let us assume, it is possible to make the module for voting. Buttons pro's and con's. Just like as on radio stations form a hit parade for a week, month and so on.

The most popular stories will remain in top list some time, then will go downwards. And so on. Fair system. It is not necessary to re-invent the wheel. Nobody should be stand over of "bad boys\girls".

If someone personally wants to ask about something the author, to present him\her a bouquet of roses or to give vent righteous (or not entirely) to anger... Then let writes PM to the author.

These two can argue till they were fit to drop. But their dispute will not bring harm to other users and authors.

At such system Erin can sleep easy. She (at last!!!) can get rid of function of the wardress unusual for her.

P.S. The uniform and a bludgeon can be left for memory.
P.P.S. As they speak: "both the wolves have eaten much and the sheep have not been touched!"

I would love to, but I can't say much more than others have

Andrea Lena's picture

...already said. I know that you care about what happens here, and you have a tremendous amount of responsibility, much of which can be delegated, but much cannot. A suggestion ...maybe it would work for all those who have yet to scroll down far enough to see the "Think" caution, and maybe for some who already have? Just for one day, every blog, every comment, and every story would lead first to that screen, so no one could say they didn't know it was a good thing to be kind and thoughtful before they posted anything.

Perhaps then Erin might enjoy a weekend like this?

Instead of this?
She was born for all the wrong reasons but grew up for all the right ones.
Possa Dio riccamente vi benedica, tutto il mio amore, Andrea

  

To be alive is to be vulnerable. Madeleine L'Engle
Love, Andrea Lena