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Has anyone else been following the spat between Times food critic Giles Coren and the paper's subeditors? Highly entertaining stuff, tho not for the faint hearted, as Mr Coren's opinion are rather pithy.
A good summation from the Guardian here - http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/jul/25/pressandpublishi...
Comments
Pretty funny
Those are pretty funny but he was right in each case. :) But boy can he froth at the mouth.
A subeditor appears to be what we call this side of the pond a copy editor, someone who checks for spelling, grammar, consistency and accuracy. A copy editor is not supposed to change things just because he thinks they sound better written differently, he's supposed to defer to the writer on that. Someone as careful with his words as Mr. Coren is bound to be frustrated writing for newspapers where there usually isn't time for the second reading after the copy editor has marked it up.
A sub-editor here would be someone who does an editor's job (gives the writers their assignments and decides which stories get printed and where) but doesn't get an editor's pay. Note the hyphen. :) A section in the paper would have an editor. A multiple page section might have sub-editors for sub-sections. The sports section would have a sports editor and might have a local sports sub-editor for the stories about local high school teams.
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
The unkindest cut
Having dealt with newspaper editors as a newsroom composer for 18 years I can surmise what caused this flap. I would suspect that if I had the actual paper in my hands that the article probably was a line too long and the copy editor wanted to trim just enough to make the story fit without making a serious cut in the copy. Seeking to minimize the damage (and probably well aware of Coren's penchant for going off on editors) the copy editor probably thought he/she was preventing the very blowup that occurred.
While the side play on words would never have occurred to me, being part of the local idiom, even I would be aware that 'a nosh' here meant 'a bite to eat' as opposed to simply 'eat'. Then again I've been 'topping from below' with editors for years.
Commentator
Visit my Caption Blog: Dawn's Girly Site
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Oh dear
'e does go on doesn't 'e. Must say I like his turn of phrase and that wonderful use of smart-arsery... But the line that got me was in the intro...'We writers are rather protective of our words, prone to filing late and flouncing about and are altogether a tad precious. '... gasp...never let it be said. I just get huffy and pout a bit.
Kristina
And Here I Was
Worried about using a bit of olde Englishe in a joke here on BC. Christ, I haven't worried about scansion in over 50 years. Like the commentator says, "precious"! I'll say it's bloody precious. He should be worrying about whether the food and the service was any good at the places he was reviewing and if he was conveying this to potential customers or not. What a wanker!
I can't say Hugs on that note, can I now?
Joanne
Precious
I found Coren's email amusing when I read it in this morning's Guardian but somewhat overblown. He's a restaurant critic for pity's sake - just about the most trivial level of journalism. I usually glance at the prices restaurant critics think is reasonable for lunch just to see by what order is more than I'd be prepared to pay for something usually more substantial.
I can only think he has an inferiority complex because both his late father, Alan, and his sister, Victoria were/are much better and much funnier in print and on radio. Victoria is also a poker champion - European, I think.
Geoff
Have Not Seen
I have not seen Victoria Coren on coverage of either the World Series of Poker or the World Poker Tour but she did have one cash at the WSOP.
http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/players/playerProfile.asp?...
There was no record of her on the WPT website.
As my favor to you let me stick a ditty in your head.
Precious and few are the moments we two can share.
Quiet and blue, like the sky, I'm hung over you.
And if I can't find my way back home, it just wouldn't be fair.
Precious and few are the moments we two can share.
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
She won £500,000 ...
... in the London leg of the European Poker Tour in 2006 (whatever that is - I know nothing about poker, although we used to play 3 card brag occasionally which is similar I think :) )
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-406923/Poker-face-Vi...
She's a very good humorist, though, and her column in the Observer is always good for a laugh. The one she wrote as an obituary for her dad, Alan, was touching and funny without being sentimental.
Thanks for the precious piece :)
Geoff
And yet...
He is still an author. This is a problem everywhere for authors. Subeditors (copy editors) who decide that suddenly, their job description includes, "thinking for the stupid authors," after all -- they must know better, right? Wrong. If they knew better, they'd be WRITING and not just copy editing.
There have been major lawsuits over this sort of thing. A copy editor is not supposed to change the content, only to make certain that it is, in fact, not filled with glaring grammatical errors. They're not even charged with fully correcting grammar, as sometimes it is IMPORTANT for something to be grammatically "off" a bit.
A good example of the damage that copy editors can do is Pier Anthony's novel, But What Of Earth?. Granted, most people would say this is an entire different situation, but I would disagree. Mister Coren is a writer making a living from writing. To him and anyone who happens to be a fan, his work is HIS work.
A sculptor creates a statue, and then a copy editor shortens the hair. A cake decorator designs a wedding cake and then a copy editor gives the groom topper a beard. Same type of thing for about the same different levels, both are still a horrible idea.
In newspapers ...
... with the best will in the world, it's going to happen. Copy editors themselves don't have time for a second read to see if they maybe overstepped. Columnists are especially vulnerable because they are doing stuff with language besides just conveying information. I wrote for newspapers back in the sixties, but only news. Mostly copy editors just whacked the end off my stories because they were too long. But I was a stringer, I got paid by the inch! Of course the stories were too long. LOL.
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
In his defence
he's not A.A.Gill, who heads up my 'punch on sight' list :)