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I'm starting this because I'm a bit upset over all things an online journal. It wasn't even mine. No there was this public post that led to this really well written opinion about how she perceived men. I actually felt under attack by it. Not in a crushed male ego kind of thing but...I really try to be a good guy, I like old fashioned manners the whole nine yards. I'm not however an old fashioned trog. I love women, most of my close friends are women, I'm a firm supporter of all of a womens rights including in my opinion that being treated like a lady is a right.
She hated that and me for responding and telling her that not all guys were like her depiction. I really hate the feeling she left me with.
Am I so wrong that I should be this upset that being or trying to be an honorable man is offensive to women today?
Comments
Link
Would you be willing to post a link so we can see? On the surface she sounds like a narrow-minded pseudo-feminist, but it would be interesting to see them in context.
Karen J.
"Being a girl is wonderful and to torture someone into that would be like the exact opposite of what it's like. I don’t know how anyone could act that way." College Girl - poetheather
"Life is not measured by the breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.”
George Carlin
you have every right to be upset
Not knowing which blog/journal entry you are referring to, I would say you have every right to be upset at her reaction to your comment. Bear in mind that some women think they want to be treated like ladies, but when it comes to opening doors and letting a lady in the door first, they become bitter.
There was a girl (I call her a "girl" because even though she was over 25, she still acted 13)that used to work in my office who would pontificate how she needs to be treated like a lady, but she was fine with being called and calling others terrible names I refuse to use. So, just keep in mind the pot may be calling the kettle black in this instance.
I, on the other hand, really do enjoy the little niceties my husband and other men show me. Opening the car door, helping me down the steps, and other gentlemanly offerings are much appreciated, and I make sure I thank the person who offered such.
Remember that opinions are like assholes...everyone has one. It's up to every individual to decide whether to spew sh*# or not.
Paula Young
A life lived in fear is a life half-lived
Thanks
It's really nice to know that I'm not crazy in still trying to keep the beliefs my father taught me. He taught me so many things but he was of a whole different generation than now. He was a really great guy and role-model for me. I'll always remember him. Being a gentleman and honoring the things that were important to me is my way of keeping his memory alive. I'm still trying to be the man he was.
My Mum says she'll never remarry and seldom goes out on dates even 20 years after his death. She just says "You don't find perfect twice." I know dad wasn't perfect no one is but...To be that kind of guy who inspired that kind of love.
Bailey Summers
Sort of reminds me of an
Sort of reminds me of an ex-friend of mine. She'd constantly rag about how all men are, unquestionably and unequivicably, pigs, transwomen aren't "real" women (That one stung. She knew the truth about me, and that she still said that cut pretty deeply), etc.
Without knowing the whole context I can't really judge, but my gut says she's being obtuse and narrow-minded, to put it politely. And that's coming from someone who, through a series of bad experiences over the years, doesn't trust men easily either ;-) I still give everyone a chance though. It's not like a woman can't be a complete self-righteous jerk either(see above example :-P)
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Thank you Zoe.
It was just the way she was saying these things like all men are cut from the same cloth.
That's not true of anybody. But saying that she was wrong and that not all men are space hogs and blatantly rude to women because they can because they're men really got her angry I'd say. I mentioned about being a gentleman and doing the gentlemanly things like opening doors and such. I also brought up the lack of manners in women too today, I said it'd be nice to get thanked for holding open a door and letting a woman go passed. Now I'm not wanting some big gesture just a gesture like please and thank you is for table manners.
She asked me if I wanted a cookie:(
She said women today didn't need or want our so called lack of respect masked as good manners.
It's not me not to do it.
I was raised to be mannerly.
I firmly in ladies first.
As to her I'm getting it out of my system now thanks to you lovely people, It's nice to have an ear or even a shoulder, somebody to talk to about these things.
Some little boys want to be little girls, some want the princess thing, the fairy tale. I'm good with all of it, I learned that people are people no matter who they are inside or outside but I just want to let people know there's a few guys out here who grew up still dreaming of being the knight for the princess.
Bailey Summers
Women who hate men.
I lived with a woman who hated men for 38 years. It broke me down utterly.
I've known a few...
women who had become so "militantly" liberated that they felt any acts of courtesy that MIGHT resemble the "manners" you were taught to be offensive.
MOST, that I've known, appreciate politeness, though some less militant ones will get a tad exasperated if you go out of your way to open their door or refuse to use their name when asked or won't let them open the door for you if it's more convenient for them. This kinda makes sense to me as well.
Back in the day... I was "indoctrinated" in those courtesies, and while out pretending to be a guy, I still follow them. Though, if I know the person I'll include a "Hey, at least I can pretend to be a gentleman" or some such. It generally gets a laugh the first time, and avoids most complaints.
But, you will occasionally find some women (I've even known a guy or two that felt those courtesies to be out dated) that cannot accept more than general politeness.
Best of luck to you,
Ann
Insisting on following
A code of conduct at all times is as ridiculous as anything, it's gone overboard. I prefer to be told if my actions are not pleasant - not that it will stop me always, just most of the time. However, while I usually hold and/or open the door for a woman if occasion presents itself, usually I am about to pass or have just passed said door, and the woman in question is only a second or two away. And if we by chance were walking side by side right before, I will quicken my pace to arrive at the door first, that's all.
As it is, I see manners as more of a matter of a mutual convenience.
Faraway
Big Closet Top Shelf
Where you can fool around like you want to and most you get is some bemused good ribbing!
Faraway
Big Closet Top Shelf
Where you can fool around like you want to and most you get is some bemused good ribbing!
Just my take on the subject.
“Chivalry!---why, maiden, she is the nurse of pure and high affection---the stay of the oppressed, the redresser of grievances, the curb of the power of the tyrant ---Nobility were but an empty name without her, and liberty finds the best protection in her lance and her sword.â€
I am glad to be chivalrous and be acknowledged as such. It is entirely right and good to be an honorable man, or woman for that matter.
She was born for all the wrong reasons but grew up for all the right ones.
Con grande amore e di affetto, Andrea Lena
Love, Andrea Lena
Common Courtesy
In my neck of the woods, men don't hold doors open for women, people hold doors open for people. You're just as likely to see a 45 year old woman step through a door and then hold it open for the 18 year old boy behind her as the other way around. And 'thank you' gets a pretty heavy workout from all sexes. We call it 'common courtesy' and it is something most of us still practice. We were taught it at a young age and we still teach it to our kids.
Anybody that has a problem with that, well too bad! I didn't do it for you, I did it for me. My daddy would rise up outta his grave and smack me if I didn't.
I went outside once. The graphics weren' that great.
A subject update.
As I've told a few people here in private chats I was upset by the encounter for various reasons and some of the mood was admittedly on me. I was also talked down to a sense of calm by these people and had a discussion of sorts that on further reflection has left me much more informed. I'm not going to rehash the subject but I just want to thank people here for the private support and to all of you that commented, to get such comments and advice from such wonderful people made me feel infinitely better.
My thanks to everyone here.
Bailey Summers
House keeping first...
...that first sentence seems to be a sentence fragment.
Most people are popularist thinkers. That means whatever seems to be the prevalent opinion that is what they believe to be true.
There are versions of popularist thinkers best identified by the group of people with which they identify. They may even limit this mode of thinking to a particular subject such as religion or politics. It is a type of 'opinion forming' that expends the least amount of effort; everyone else has already done the thinking, and proofing, for them.
Many harmful stereotypes and bigotries are perpetuated through this type of thinking. I've seen idiotic opinions held by otherwise ingenious people such as 'black people can't be prejudice' which is a ludicrous idea.
It sounds like you are fighting a battle against such thinking. I saw one opinion in one of the stories on this board that suggested that men only hold doors open for beautiful women... I often get caught having to hold the door open for groups of people at the mall or church or whereever because it would be rude to have that door slam in someone's face and I'm not that type of person.
Another such thing is addressing someone as miss or mister, maam or sir. Sometimes people actually get offended that I continue to do it. I'm not a believer in 'respect is earned'. I am a believer that respect is forfeited through an exhibited lack of character. Often I have kids laugh at me saying '...I'm not a mister/sir (or miss/maam).' It is a matter of respect and everyone is entitled to it until they have demonstrated that they are not.