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In an act of massive fuckery, North Carolina's legislature convened a special session today and rammed through a law overruling all local non-discrimination ordinances in the state, in order to block a new Charlotte ordinance slated to take effect in April which would allow trandgender individuals to use the correct bathrooms. The law goes further and mandates that public buildings including schools, public colleges, and government buildings only allow bathroom/locker usage based on biological gender, bans multi-user unisex bathrooms, and, while we're at it, also overturns local ordinances mandating higher minimum wages than the state's.
Submitted to signed in one day.
News article here.
I'll say this, though: there's a certain part of me that can't wait for this to get challenged, dragged into court, and smacked down. If we're lucky, it will get chased all the way up to the Supreme Court so that this entire line of bathroom-hunting bullshit can get quashed for good. I just feel sorry for all of the transgender individuals in North Carolina who are going to have to suffer under this until that happens.
Comments
Pathetic
A lot of post-ops would cause a riot if they entered their 'biological sex' bathrooms.
The usual right wing doushery.
yeah
How does the law define "biological sex"? Assigned at birth? DNA? Physical sex? And how do they check?
Are the intersexed allowed in neither?
edit: I see if you have had your paper work updated that it doe not apply, so post op with gender change paper work done, counts as "biological sex"
Additional thought:
Does the wording preclude unisex restrooms?
:(
>i<
The Legislation says what is
The Legislation says what is on the Birth Certificate.
Biological sex. – The physical condition of being male or female, which is stated on a person's birth certificate.
I prefered the South Dakota Legislation, which was based on DNA. (I wanted to see SD go broke doing DNA tests on ALL the students in the state.)
Interesting
It just shows it is still half-assed and rushed legislation to have such slipshod thinking in such a definition.
Does this mean it is now officially not okay to bring any children not of biological sex into the restroom? Parents will love that one.
I Hope.
Hope they are stupid enough to charge some parents on the issue. Although I feel sorry for the parents involved, the more monkey wrenches in the works the better.
>i<
I never understood the logic in this
From another site: "There have been arguments that any man — perhaps a sex offender — could enter a woman's restroom or locker room simply by calling himself transgender."
Who's to stop that from happening regardless? Especially in restrooms. It's not like anyone sits outside each public restroom and guards the womenfolk; refusing to let any of those nasty male sex offenders in. And can this not happen in a men's restroom just as easily? Or even more easily? Is there some rule on the books that says male sex offenders may only use the bathroom when they're not going to accost another man, or young boy?
This is the dumbest kind of false logic. In this hypothetical situation: if someone is going to be victimized by a sex offender (either in a locker room or restroom) it is going to happen regardless. Claiming they were transgender after the fact does not justify the crime committed. They will not magically receive a "get out of jail free" card by claiming they were transgender when they assaulted the woman. It will still be a crime.
~Taylor Ryan
My muse suffers from insomnia, and it keeps me up at night.
Yep, it does not make any sense.
Assuming they are going after the opposite sex(not always the case), if a sexual predator is going to is going to go in to the wrong bathroom they are going to do it anyway(cross-dressed or not), they are not going to worry about this rule. They got bigger things to worry about.
IF, this is who this law is aimed at, they have missed the target, I think it is just a convenient excuse though.
>i<
I'm embarrassed...
...to have a diploma issued in that state.
Don't remember it being such a hateful place. Must be my age.
Without reading it in detail,
Without reading it in detail, this sounds like a bill that was initially written to enforce State over Local for various ordinances, and then ended up with a stinky pile of riders added onto it. (Another reason why no bill should be allowed to have ANYTHING in it not directly associated with the main topic. I mean, really - bathrooms _and_ minimum wage laws? That stinks of 'riders' without needing to see anything else.)
I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.
Having sort of read through
Having sort of read through the Law, it was signed sealed and passed all in one day, besides the bathroom clause, it prevents local government from setting a local minimum wage, and allows discrimination against transgendered for other things, like employment.
It is the public policy of this State to protect and safeguard the right and opportunity
of all persons to seek, obtain and hold employment without discrimination or abridgement on
account of race, religion, color, national origin, age, biological sex or handicap by employers
which regularly employ 15 or more employees.
It is the public policy of this State to protect and safeguard the right and opportunity
of all individuals within the State to enjoy fully and equally the goods, services, facilities,
privileges, advantages, and accommodations of places of public accommodation free of
discrimination because of race, religion, color, national origin, or biological sex, provided that
designating multiple or single occupancy bathrooms or changing facilities according to
biological sex, as defined in G.S. 143-760(a)(1), (3), and (5), shall not be deemed to constitute
discrimination
Minnesota Certificate in North Carolina???
My Minnesota amended birth certificate doesn't list a sex or gender and I live and work in North Carolina. So which facility do I use? Do I have to carry my birth certificate with me now? Who is checking at the door?
You sir and/or ma'am must now
You sir and/or ma'am must now use the nongendered bathrooms. They are located on floor Pi.
dumb law
Time for a flock of testosterone-filled preoperative transmen to hang out in the ladies' room at the NC state legislative building.
Along with a large group of
Along with a large group of transwomen dressed to the nines hanging out in the men's room.
This Is What I'm Praying For
Especially with transmen, there's not a lot of agreement on what "post-op" might mean.
Regardless, now, according to this blindingly stupid NC law, all these men are REQUIRED to use the ladies restroom:
https://www.google.com/search?q=transman&espv=2&biw=1250&bih...
Stupid laws
Honestly its a stupid law that truly cannot be enforced. If you are trans and you look like the opposite gender than you were born with, who is going to know? If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, everyone is going to believe its a duck.
I think the law was passed to stop the perverted man that would use the women's facilities just to get his jollies off without fear of being arrested, although in their rush they worded it terribly.
Seriously a man wearing men's clothing, sporting a crew cut should not be entering the women's restroom and using the excuse that he is a woman trapped in a man's body to get away with it.
On the same note, a transwoman, that appears to all the world as a woman should not be forced to go into the men's room because of what is written on her birth certificate.
We the willing, led by the unsure. Have been doing so much with so little for so long,
We are now qualified to do anything with nothing.
...
...
And remember...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifLqzLEB3E0
I See Your Point
However, when you justify this law based on "There’s been a great deal of concern about things like this from students’ parents." I lose interest in your perspective.
Right is right. A whole lot of parents fifty years ago were very concerned about keeping "them coloreds" in their place. That didn't make racial discrimination right.
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
not fifty years ago
not fifty years ago hun. They still do that today. I can go right down the road less than a mile and find people like that. People that still think a black man should be hung for even looking at a white woman, mexicans crossing the border illegally should be hunted for sport, cubans/haitians trying to cross in boats should be torpedoed in shark filled waters and transgenders should be raped back to normal. They also think women should be kept in the house other than for going to church and to buy groceries with the allowance given to them by their husband. That's those good, decent, christian morals. You know, the ones that buy, I mean; 'donate money' to our politicians. Provide young attractive staffers to aforementioned politicos too. No names mentioned, we know who they are.
quidquid sum ego, et omnia mea semper; Ego me.
alecia Snowfall
An awful lot of Public Restrooms...
...come under "public bathrooms which are operated by public agencies"! I really don't see the bulk of people objecting to this law saying, "it does apply to other facilities". "Public bathrooms which are operated by public agencies" is bad enough. From what I can see, most(not all) are very well aware of the limits, and do NOT think that this makes it OK. It is not necessary to read more in to this law, or assign further scope to it, to be against it.
However, since you brought up those limitation, don't you think that other facilities/organization/etc. will use the rules for government facilities as an argument, "If it is not discriminatory government for the government to do this then it can not be if we do it too." It very well may open the way for other rulings in this direction. Although some may be reading more in to the law as it stand, other are simply anticipating where it leads.
As for the rest, “not on my time.”, etc.:
At the very least the rest of what you have pointed up, makes it very hard to go from diagnosed as Transgender to Fully-Transitioned, since there is no room for a real life test, or any of the rest of the process required to get there. “Not on my time” is very much discriminatory if it is some one legitimately transitioning, and living that role. How does one transition, if you are barred from education and employment while under going your transition.
>i<
In my experience
Transgender, lesbian, gay or bisexuals rarely form up in feral packs to isolate and assault cisgendered individuals.
Sadly, the same cannot be said in the reverse ... and don't try and tell me it can when I've personally broken up said packs, along with my brother. I may not be a large person (under five feet, not elaborating), but I can crush bricks in either hand, and Rick's assembled along pretty much the same frame, in deluxe family size (just under seven feet tall, and can scratch own kneecaps without significant bending). He's broken up incipient riots just by standing up.
Stupid Is As Stupid Does
I was inspired by your mention of crew cuts, to relate a real live case that happened in normally gay-friendly NYC. In Greenwich Village, no less!
A somewhat butch lesbian woman went into the ladies room in a restaurant (Caliente Cab Restaurant Company). Someone mistook her for a man and hysteria ensued. There was a lawsuit and the restaurant agreed to an important settlement:
http://www.villagevoice.com/news/lesbian-settles-discriminat...
The moral of this story is that hysterical people make hysterically bad decisions, and if you don't give people the benefit of the doubt, you could be the one with the consequences to deal with.
*Waits for the hysteria to ensue...*
... as the Transmen¹, as required by law, use the lady's room.*
I can see it now, hysteria, arguments, law suits, etc., the police will be called for people following the law!
Gee, this might actually have some entertainment value. I hope no on gets hurt though.
~Hypatia >i<
.
¹ as per the link in your previous comment
((add on comment))* Look what I found!
Trans Man Demolishes NC Gov’s Insanely Bigoted Logic With Just One Tweet!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/north-carolina-transgend...
This will certainly make people more comfortable. Yeah Right! NOT!!!
And of course there wont be any fuss, just doing what the law says, how could there be.
And so the show begins!
Where's my popcorn?
>i<
* yes I know. I replied to my own comment, but, this felt like it needed to be more then just an edit.
so what you're saying is
so a documented person under going treatment for gender dysphoria or correction for an inter-sex condition can be legally forced into potentially lethal confrontations to which there will be no help( i.e.- assault, assault/rape, assault/rape/murder in public restrooms). Also said documented persons can be legally turned away from every retailer (i.e.- general merchandise, grocers, fuel points, supply stores) and not be served to make purchases. Hospitals and other medical services can refuse treatment on those same grounds. Employers can terminate same person for same reason.
Nice law. Are they going to chain up the African-Americans and start killing the Native Americans again? Weren't things like that the christian way some years back? Lucky for them I don't live there, I'd have to finally take pleasure in the 2nd amendment. The first jackass to tell me no would certainly be shot. I'd claim it would be part of my first amendment rights. I'd become a devout member of the Congregation for the Holy Hollowpoint Survival Order. I hear one can mail off to be ordained. They take paypal/mastercard right?
quidquid sum ego, et omnia mea semper; Ego me.
alecia Snowfall
Peace
Peace, Sister. The good Lord (or the Flying Spaghetti Monster, deity, or natural or economic force of your choice, or maybe even the Federal Court System) will deal with this in due time. Just have a large tub of popcorn ready for the final act of this tragi-comic play.
Of course, it will all depend
Of course, it will all depend on passability and sex-role stereotypes.
But the intent is obvious enough (a) to stigmatize trans people (b) to try to force people who have started transition to out themselves and (c) thereby expose themselves to violence (d) to try to force people who haven't started transition to hide themselves and (e) to teach trans children to hate themselves.
Yeah, it sucks. But it only
Yeah, it sucks. But it only effects people who don't/can't pass. I've been using the correct bathroom for years now with never a single sideways glance so I'm not worried at all about these so called bathroom bills. If you pass...nobody will even know. Learn how to sit on a toilet properly and even if someone looked over the stall they wouldn't see anything. I think we all knew going into this that if we couldn't pass we would get a lot of crap shoveled on us. It's not fair. I agree. Its crap. It's what the majority heaps on us because they can, and we struggle to do anything about it because we are the minority. The little people. I hate it too. But...we all knew what we were getting into going into transition. We knew society sucks. So why are we shocked on this one?
Let's hope someone overturns that law before someone gets hurt.
Modern Christian attitudes seem to be
More hate and discrimination than loving (or at least respecting) thy neighbor. Sad.
Google
Title 9 law. It protects TGs in schools getting anything at all from the feds. It might be used to fight workplace discrimination in future lawsuits.
Tell guys that want into wimyn's spaces that they need a carry letter.
Hugs and Bright Blessings,
Renee
Yeah...
As soon as that portion of the law gets challenged in court, it will go down in flames. Title XI is quite clear on that point. Unfortunately, that won't take the rest of the mess with it.
There Are Laws
Simply passing a law is one thing. How that law is enforced is something else entirely. Another consideration is the vast wasteland of interpretation.
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)